Guest Steven D'Argenio (aka Steve Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 My name is Steven D'Argenio (aka Steve D) and I was the person that posted the "Do you know where you wil spend Eternity".. many people have attacked me saying I am one of those "Jesus freaks" that jams down your throats Christianity, etc.... believe me, I am far , far from being a Jesus freak or super good Christian in that sense.I discovered Jesus five years ago (I am 43 yrs old now)as my savior and assurance that I will get into Heaven/Eternity (I am by no means a Jesus freak in that sense). Let me tell you how someone like me that had no faith came to even ask Jesus into my life. (talk about longshots !).....I lived for 38 years what many would call a wild spirited life that had no meaning. Although successfull professionally, I was a horrible husband, son and father. Lying, cheating and stealing for my own selfish needs and self centerness was a way of life for me... until one day I was tired of the person that I had become. I desparately wanted to be a good father, husband, son... I no longer wanted to cheat, steal, lie, etc... But I couldn't Change... repeat, I could not change on my own... Boy did I try - but failed EVER time... Then one day, I heard about folks that got down on theire hands and knees and asked Jesus that if he really existed - and if he was who the Bible says he was, could he come into my life as my personal savior and change me. I figured these people were all nuts - but what did I have to lose, maybe a few minutes of my life asking a serious question to God (if he really existed). That was five years ago that I asked Jesus that if he really existed could he come into my life and help me... it did not happen overnight and has been spiritual progress and not perfection these past five years. But Jesus did come into my life (dont even ask me why I asked for his help five years ago - but I did... Asking him was a longshot in my mind at best... runner-runner I guess you can say). But I did. I am no saint , but I am now a good Husband, good father, I do not lie (Or try not too), steal or cheat. What a miracle that all those that knew me cannot believe the change and peace that has come into my life as a result.I grow closer to God and Jesus everyday and my LIFE has changed. I did not write the "Four Spiritual Laws". that you clain I am forcing down your throat - I apologize if I offended you or anyone else.. the four spiritual laws are very common in the Christian community as a way to show what the Bible says about Jesus and salvation and the path to Eternal salvation. This is all possible by doing what I did - asking Jesus into your life..Just ask Jesus that you do not know if he really exists or that this guy Steve D (me) may be some nut or so... but that if you really do exist Jesus and are indeed the way to Eternal life - then I want a piece of your action and can you come into my life the way you did Steve D's and many others.What do you have to lose... if Jesus does not exist, you wasted maybe 3 minutes of your life asking a question to your "Higher Power".. If Jesus does exist and you ask the questions with sincerity.. then God guarantees that your runner-runner will come in on 4th and 5th street and your life will change in ways you never imagined.My cell phone number is 703-989-0140 if you or anyone else wants to talk.Steven D'ArgenioSteve Dnvflag@sprynet.com Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Thanks for sharing... Stories like that I often find more profound than stories of Christians who grew up the "right way" all along.For a guy like Paul, to go from being an absolutely horrible human being to what he became, is a powerful testament to SOMETHING amazing happening in his life.I'm always amazed at the strories of lives being turned around... it's pretty awesome. Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Hey if you improved your life fine - the problem i had with your post and which you ignore is that your post says you have to do it just like me or you are going to burn in hell. Fix your own life. Try to help others - fine. But don't damn everyone who disagrees with you - not to mention people who aren't exposed to Jesus to eternal damnation. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 You can ask directions to Las Vegas, and there may be muliple 'ways' but eventually you got to get on the I15 or you ain't gonnna make it. Not narrow minded to point this out, just the way it is.If God said the only way into heaven was wearing pink shirts and eating vegetables, that's the way it is, it's His world, we don't get to put our two cents in.If I had the winning lotto numbers and told you in order to win you HAVE to use these numbers you could come up with many arguements about why the lotto commision is so narrow minded, why they insist you pay a dollar and fill in exactly these numbers, but all your arguements are pointless, they make the rules and if you want to do it differently, don't expect to win the big prize.I personally have never shoved anything down anyone's throat, and have never seen anyone do this. It's more of a cliche' way of saying I don't want to believe. Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Not at all look at his original post - he says accept jesus or go to hellWell hey he could be right but any religion that damns a person that never is exposed to Jesus at all to eternal damnation is not moral - its the opposite of moral it is contemptable. If that is the only way to get into heavan i dont want to go Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Keith,I cannot tell you "who" gets into Heaven or not. Only God himself can. And God can let whomever he wants into Heaven - only God knows for sure whats in a persons heart. I was only telling you what the Bible/ New Testament is saying. To learn more, read the book that Daniel mentions, "The Case for Christ". This will give you a much deeper understanding on why many believe the New Testament to be true and accurate 100% without a doubt as a document of history.If God created the Universe then who are we to even imagine that we can think, debate, etc on His level. We cant and would not respect a God that intelligence was on our level.All I am saying is that we have a way where we can assure where we will spend Eternity. - yes assure ourselves of getting into heaven and improving our lives (and others) here on earth in the process. That is by asking God that if this Jesus person really exists and is he He claims to be, then I want him to come into my (your) life.Again, what do you have to lose - if Jesus is not who he claims to be (or does not exist), then you wasted a few minutes asking some questions to the God of your understanding. If Jesus IS who He claims to be, then if you asked those tough questions to God with sincerity and from the heart, then Jesus will come into your life and YOU WILL KNOW it and see the changes slowly take place.I am not saying, my way or the highway.... I am saying that I believe that Jesus came into my life and I know he changed it - not just me but for so many others. I also believe that I am going to Heaven as a result of what God promises in the Bible/new Testament.How many people lives do you hear have been changed from Buddah, Allah , etc (all great individuals so no offense to any of them or others).. but how many peoples lives have and continue to this day to be changed by asking Jesus into their lives ?The fact that you are posting means that you are seeking some answers. Don't have to believe me, ask God those tough questions. He will answer you.But if you do want to learn more, feel free to contact me.I mean no disrespect to any of your postings and think they are all good questions.With much respect,Steven D'ArgenioSteve D703-989-0140nvflag@sprynet.com Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Well in actuality there are a ton of people who think their lives have been changed by AllahSome of them are as intolerant as youHere's what drives me nuts You just said - if i'm wrong i have nothing to loseYou didn't change your life for the better because you wanted to be a good person - you did it because you thought it would be a good way to get into heaven. Someone who is good for the purpose of getting something out of it - isnt that good at allYou should be a good father just because its the right thing to doI seriously doubt jesus ever dropped into your living room - in all likelihood a decent support group would have made you a better personIf you need threats to make you a good person fine - but stop telling people that disagree with you that they are going to hellIf you are right and someday you are playing foosball up in the clouds with Martin Luthor feel free to have a laugh at me -Just because god created the universe doesn't mean he is fair and worth supporting - if your god is saying accept jesus or go to hell even if you have never even heard of jesus - then he is an unjust god and should be opposed Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Just because god created the universe doesn't mean he is fair and worth supporting - if your god is saying accept jesus or go to hell even if you have never even heard of jesus - then he is an unjust god and should be opposedthe contradictory nature of the whole christian plan of salvation is the best evidence there is that the christian god is a fabrication, and the only christian response is the one the OP gave - "man cannot comprehend the ways of god, so don't try" (cult speak). Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 the contradictory nature of the whole christian plan of salvation is the best evidence there is that the christian god is a fabrication, and the only christian response is the one the OP gave - "man cannot comprehend the ways of god, so don't try" (cult speak).Um wow...contradictory plan of salvation? please explain that one crow... And you are so very wrong on ur other nonsense. "man cannot comprehend the ways of God so dont try?" Why do you make that nonsense up? IM at least glad ur arent claiming to be unbiased. What is it that a scientist says when there is someting unexplained? "We dont know yet but maybe one day science will tell us" Do you see your hypocricy? Man doesnt understand all that God has for us. We accept that just as you say THE EXACT SAME THING about science. Nowhere do you see anybody saying well we are just gonna try... We are gonna live in our little bubble and wait until we get to God. Some of the leading scientists are christians...but ur right we dont do anything but sit there. Link to post Share on other sites
missIdaho 1 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Not at all look at his original post - he says accept jesus or go to hellAnd?We as Christians believe that it is through Christ that we are saved. It is through his scarifice that our sins are forgiven and if we choose to believe and accept him we will not have to suffer eternal damnation. That is what Christinanity is all about. It isn't a threat. It is a base reality. If you choose not to believe this, that is your choice and no one is forcing it upon you. It always confuses me how there are those that don't believe but are so offended that we believe they will go to hell. If you don't believe in it, why does it even matter to you? We all have a right to our own beliefs. I have just as much right to believe as you have not to believe. Link to post Share on other sites
herokid7 0 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Here's the thing: There is no such thing as Two truths. There can be only one truth. If you ever hear two people arguing over something you know that they have two different sides to the story, they may both be strecthing the truth some, but in reality only one thing actually happened. One truth. This is why I believe Jesus is the only way to Heaven. To me that is a perfectly logical explanation of why all paths don't lead to Heaven. There's only one truth. See? i didn't even use scripture even though I could have(Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes through the Father except through me."). And I haven't seen one Christian ever "force their beliefs" on anyone. I completely agree that if a Christian forces you to accept Jesus at gunpoint, then he is in the wrong. But, We're not trying to do that, we are trying to help you understand that God is offering you a gift, one that none of us deserve. Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 accept me or go to hellsounds like a really generous guynice gift Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Or you could word it:You're heading down to hell, so I'll make a really easy way for you to escape it.phraseology makes a difference, and can be a cop out. For both sides I agree, I know plenty of Christians who barely know what they believe, but just because you phrase it in a negative doesn't mean it is a negative.I do agree that the what about the people that haven't heard is a tough question. But I serve a good God, so He's probably figured that out, luckily there won't be an IQ test to get to heaventhat last line is like lighter fluid I know,flame on Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Um wow...contradictory plan of salvation? please explain that one crow...pretty simple.the majority of humans throughout history won't accept the christian god (because in their environment they find no reason to believe in him or because they believe in something else, *not* because they believe in and reject him). this leaves only 3 alternatives.1. the christian god exists but doesn't care about the salvation of individuals (or we would be in an environment where more WOULD find reason to believe in him) contradicting the bible.2. the christian god exists but is not all-powerful contradicting the bible.3. the christian god does not exist. the latter is by far the most plausable to anyone capable of rational thought.you are so very wrong on ur other nonsense. "man cannot comprehend the ways of God so dont try?"someone stated that in so many words as a response to a question about why hell is necessary, and it's an obvious contrived cop out requiring assumption that god exists in the first place.luckily there won't be an IQ test to get to heavenlol too easy Link to post Share on other sites
herokid7 0 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 To answer the question of those that never heard about Christ. I personally believe that everybody will get a chance to hear about the gospel at some point in their lives. That's why Christians are sending missionaries left and right to the places that haven't heard. Plus, I believe God's grace is far beyond what we can imagine. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the people that have never heard the gospel when they die do go to Heaven. Like babies that die before they know right from wrong and are too young to make a decision, they go straight to the throne room of God.As for the argument that God has given us an ultimatum: "Accept me or go to Hell" I want to tell a story. There once was a city slicker who decided to take a vacation to the country, he had never been there before and found the differences in lifestyles amazing. As he was driving by a farm he saw something strange. There was a farmer out in the field, trying to help a cow give birth to a baby calf. The problem was, the calf was being birthed hindend first. The farmer knew He had to work hard or else the calf would die, he saw the city slicker by the fence watching in awe. The farmer called out to him,"Come here and give me a hand!" The city slicker shouted back, " I don't know anything about cows!" "Just come help me!" The farmer replied. So, the city slicker jumped the fence and helped the farmer deliver the calf successfully. As they were walking toward the barn to get washed up, the farmer asked the city slicker if he had any questions. "Well, just one, that has been bothering me since I first pulled up." he said. "Shoot." the farmer said. "Well, how fast was that calf running when it ran into the back of that cow?"The point is two people can look at the same thing and see two completely different things. Where I see the path to Heaven as the ultimate sign of God's love for us, some people, see it as as an ultimatum. But, it's not an ultimatum, it's not even an escape route from Hell, it's about living life here on earth to the best possible extent. Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I believe God's grace is far beyond what we can imagine. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the people that have never heard the gospel when they die do go to Heaven. Like babies that die before they know right from wrong and are too young to make a decision, they go straight to the throne room of God.that is NOT what the bible says. if you are going to personally mold god into what you think he should be what's the point of believing specifically in the christian god at all? why not just believe in a generic higher power that somehow encompasses all religions? Link to post Share on other sites
herokid7 0 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 that is NOT what the bible says. if you are going to personally mold god into what you think he should be what's the point of believing specifically in the christian god at all? why not just believe in a generic higher power that somehow encompasses all religions?As I said, that is my personal belief, as that is how i interpret the scriptures to the best of my knowledge. It might be wrong, it's just my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
missIdaho 1 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 accept me or go to hellsounds like a really generous guynice giftHe was generous enough to give you life and free will. It is a nice gift. Link to post Share on other sites
keith crime 8 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 According to these guys my life doesn't mean anything other than as a sort of test to see if I will accept JesusIt sounds like he only gave me free will so if I didn't follow his word he could damn me forever Link to post Share on other sites
KowboyKoop 0 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 So a child in Africa is born and dies when he is 6 months old. This happens all the time in Africa. Is each one of those souls burning in hell right now?? If so, then wouldn't that be GOD'S fault for not even giving him a CHANCE to accept Jesus??? That 6 month old baby never at any point in his life had the capability to "accept Jesus," so I guess God just screwed him over. Sucks to be him I guess, right?? Link to post Share on other sites
missIdaho 1 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 So a child in Africa is born and dies when he is 6 months old. This happens all the time in Africa. Is each one of those souls burning in hell right now?? If so, then wouldn't that be GOD'S fault for not even giving him a CHANCE to accept Jesus??? That 6 month old baby never at any point in his life had the capability to "accept Jesus," so I guess God just screwed him over. Sucks to be him I guess, right??No. Read the bible. Link to post Share on other sites
KowboyKoop 0 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 No. Read the bible.I will never read the Bible. Explain it to me if I am wrong. People repeatedly say that you have to accept Jesus or burn in hell...seems pretty cut and dry to me. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,768 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 So a child in Africa is born and dies when he is 6 months old. This happens all the time in Africa. Is each one of those souls burning in hell right now?? If so, then wouldn't that be GOD'S fault for not even giving him a CHANCE to accept Jesus??? That 6 month old baby never at any point in his life had the capability to "accept Jesus," so I guess God just screwed him over. Sucks to be him I guess, right?? This is going to be a long response... and is not mine... but it is my thoughts on the subject."It is our conviction that there are good reasons biblically and theologically for believing that God saves all who die who do not reach a stage of moral understanding and accountability. It is readily admitted that Scripture does not speak to this issue directly, yet there is evidence that can be gleaned that would lead us to affirm on biblical grounds that God receives into heaven all who have died in infancy. Some evidence is stronger than others, but cumulatively they marshal strong support for infant salvation. We will note six of them.First, the grace, goodness and mercy of God would support the position that God saves all infants who die. This is the strongest argument and perhaps the decisive one. God is love (1 John 4:8) and desires that all be saved (1 Timothy 2:4). God is love and His concern for children is evident in Matthew 18:14 where Jesus says, "Your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost." People go to hell because they choose in willful rebellion and unbelief to reject God and His grace. Children are incapable of this kind of conscious rejection of God. Where such rebellion and willful disobedience is absent, God is gracious to receive.Second, when the baby boy who was born to David and Bathsheba died (2 Samuel 12:15-18), David did two significant things: 1) He confessed his confidence that he would see the child again and, 2) he comforted his wife Bathsheba (vs. 23-24). David could have done those two things only if he was confident that his little son was with God. Any other explanation does not do justice to the text.Third, in James 4:17, the Bible says, "Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins." The Bible is clear that we are all born with a sin nature as a result of being in Adam (Roman 5:12). This is what is called the doctrine of original sin. However, the Scriptures make a distinction between original sin and actual sins. While all are guilty of original sin, moral responsibility and understanding is necessary for our being accountable for actual sins (Deuteronomy 1:30; Isaiah 7:16). It is to the one who knows to do right and does not do it that sin is reckoned. Infants are incapable of such decisions.Fourth, Jesus affirmed that the kingdom of God belonged to little children (Luke 18:15-17). In the passage he is stating that saving faith is a childlike faith, but He also seems to be affirming the reality of children populating heaven.Fifth, Scripture affirms that the number of saved souls is very great (Revelation 7:9). Since most of the world has been and is still non-Christian, might it be the untold multitude who have died prematurely or in infancy comprise a majority of those in heaven? Such a possibility ought not to be dismissed too quickly. In this context Charles Spurgeon said, "I rejoice to know that the souls of all infants, as soon as they die, speed their way to paradise. Think what a multitude there is of them."Sixth, some in Scripture are said to be chosen or sanctified from the womb (1 Samuel 1:8-2:21; Jeremiah 1:5; Luke 1:15). This certainly affirms the salvation of some infants and repudiates the view that only baptized babies are assured of heaven. Neither Samuel, Jeremiah or John the Baptist was baptized.After surveying these arguments, it is important for us to remember that anyone who is saved is saved because of the grace of God, the saving work of Jesus Christ and the undeserved and unmerited regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. Like all who have ever lived, except for Jesus, infants need to be saved. Only Jesus can take away their sin, and if they are saved it is because of His sovereign grace and abounding mercy.Abraham said, "Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25). We can confidently say, "Yes, He will." When it comes to those incapable of volitional, willful acts of sin, we can rest assured God will, indeed, do right. Precious little ones are the objects of His saving mercy and grace. " Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 According to these guys my life doesn't mean anything other than as a sort of test to see if I will accept JesusIt sounds like he only gave me free will so if I didn't follow his word he could damn me foreverUm...He gave you free will so you could decide how to live ur life. If you choose to ignore Him then you chose it on your own.accept me or go to hellsounds like a really generous guynice giftactually all that He asks is that you live a perfect life... Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,768 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 actually all that He asks is that you live a perfect life...You may want to explain this further, as it may be confusing Link to post Share on other sites
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