9 replies to this topic

[AlphaOmega]

2/4 6-max (6-handed)

No reads

Preflop: Hero is dealt K :icon_suit_spade: K :icon_suit_club: on the Button

UTg folds, MP bets, folds, CO cold-calls, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB cold-calls, MP calls, CO calls

Flop: (12.5 SB) A :icon_suit_spade: Q :icon_suit_spade: 9 :icon_suit_diamond: (4 players)

BB bets, MP calls, CO folds, Hero calls

Turn: (7.75 BB) J :icon_suit_diamond: (3 players)

BB bets, MP calls, Hero calls

River: (10.75 BB) 2 :icon_suit_club: (3 players)

BB bets, MP folds, Hero calls


I called initially because of bd draws + set outs, possibly the best hand

Called turn because of gut shot + set outs

Wasn't going to overcall river, but MP folded, so I took the 10.75:1 odds.

[Actuary]

this hand has nothing to do with why you are losing with KK, imo.

you're not getting free card enough to raise flop, right?

you obviously play well enough to win $$$ with KK.
Just variance.
How many KK's, like 13 ?

[AlphaOmega]

Yea I don't think I'm getting any free cards. The kind of player that would just donk out from the BB like that would probably donk the turn as well, if he doesn't three-bet the flop, which wouldn't be good for me.

It's been over 15. Most involve aces magically flying out of the deck (I lost a huge pot to AK, AK, and AQ, and QQ when the case fell on the river) and the rare times I do win I usually pick up the blinds or take it down with a continuation bet on the flop.

It hasn't been too beautiful with AA either, but I'm still in the green. I guess I'm trying to remain optimistic.

[Actuary]

I think I figured that if Ace in villans hand, then 18% chance an Ace flops and 30% it comes by the river.

Sure as hell seems worse.
I've grown to dispise Aces. not in my hand, but on the board.
WA/WB hardly seems to pay off if I'm not holding the Ace.
Just when I say that, my QQ picks off TT, with A67 9K on board.
And, I proceed to give 2.5 BB's away another 20 times I have KK/QQ and Ace flops.

so, yeah, it sucks. But it really should not happen too often.

[Absolute]

2/4 6-max (6-handed)

No reads

Preflop: Hero is dealt K :icon_suit_spade: K :icon_suit_club: on the Button

UTg folds, MP bets, folds, CO cold-calls, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB cold-calls, MP calls, CO calls

Flop: (12.5 SB) A :icon_suit_spade: Q :icon_suit_spade: 9 :icon_suit_diamond: (4 players)

BB bets, MP calls, CO folds, Hero calls

Turn: (7.75 BB) J :icon_suit_diamond: (3 players)

BB bets, MP calls, Hero calls

River: (10.75 BB) 2 :icon_suit_club: (3 players)

BB bets, MP folds, Hero calls
I called initially because of bd draws + set outs, possibly the best hand

Called turn because of gut shot + set outs

Wasn't going to overcall river, but MP folded, so I took the 10.75:1 odds.

What hands are you beating behind a bettor and a caller on the turn?

[mrdannyg]

What hands are you beating behind a bettor and a caller on the turn?

6-max, too many to fold i think.

[AlphaOmega]

What hands are you beating behind a bettor and a caller on the turn?

Not many, but I'm getting about 10:1 which is enough for a gut-shot alone. I might have the best hand, and my set outs may be good too.

The situations where I have the best hand are very slim though. MP would have to be drawing to a flush, and BB would have to be donking a broadway draw, or maybe pair + broadway draw.

[Abbaddabba]

He called for gutshots and set outs, plus the possibility that he's ahead.

Problem is that your gutshot outs are often for a chop, sometimes dirty (flush draw on board) and set outs complete a very obvious straight.


If calling the turn is bad, it's not _that_ bad. Once you get to the river, calling the river for 1, closing action with no one else calling is definitely not bad. Overcalling probably would be bad.

They're tough decisions because they're close (i think). You cant really be concerned about that shit.
Even bad players win with KK over enough hands. You just got the shaft in a few consequtive hands.

[Absolute]

I missed the gutshot.

[iggymcfly]

I wouldn't worry too much about this if I were you. I've got 86 hands with KK and I've won 69% of them, and over the long run you should get close to that too. If you were winning that percentage, I doubt that you'd be losing money in the long run. Unless you did something ridiculous like limp PF every time, and then cap every street afterwards regardless of whether an ace came, I don't think it's possible to lose money in the long run with KK.

Your turn call in the example hand was a little marginal, but I doubt it even cost you half of a small bet in the long run. Just keep playing and things will even out in the long run.