16 replies to this topic

[pokernoobie]

people say i should raise with these 2 but i often find myself raising and losing . with a10s i rarely get flush and if i flop an ace a T kicker isnt great and if i flop a 10 if no face card out already there will almost always be one. and with TT an over card almost always comes out and i never really win unless i flop another T. i play micro limits btw

[randomization]

I assume you mean limit. Tens are very similar to Jacks, in that you either want a lot of players so that you can get odds to hit a set, or very few players so that you have a decent chance of holding up. What that means in practice is that you should raise if it looks like you'll be able to keep the field to three or four players (including yourself) and just call if that's not possible. Make your decision based on your position, how many players are in and what usually happens when you raise a hand. I tend to raise with tens anytime I'm first in, (even UTG) never when there's already two limpers before me, and sometimes when I'm second in. Of course, your games may be different than mine - I tend to sit in games with a 40-50% flops seen number.

[AKQJs_2o]

Raising with a T-T or A-Js pre-flop isn't a great idea, imo. If you were on the Button and sensed weakess from the earlier player(s) you might try it, but I wouldn't write the practice onto a clay tablet and treat it like a Poker Commandment. I'd limp in with either one of those hands to see a cheap flop, if no improvement or good draw possibility comes up on the flop I fold right there.

[SmokeyMcPot]

Raise TT from any position. An overcard will come on the flop about 60% of the time, but noone his holding that particular card 100% of the time. Raise TT from any position.Raise ATs from middle and late position, you've already seen most of the action, there are no raises from early position so your T kicker is probably good.

[Jtmaroon84]

If you keep raising with preflop with TT you will win in the long run, if you keep raising preflop with ATs then you will lose in the long run. With ATs you probably want 3-4 other players in the pot with you. Most of the time with ATs, if you raise, you are isolating yourself with AK, AQ, and AJ, THIS IS NOT GOOD. If you limp with hands like ATs (treating it like Axs) then you insuring that you are getting a good enough pot size to be able to warrent drawing on the straight, flush and 2 pair possibilities of this hand. Yes, A with a ten kicker is not good, but if you don't raise preflop you don't marry yourself to the hand and so when you hit that Ace and bet and you get raised you can normally call and then check the turn in limit or fold right away if you are playing NL and are facing a sizeable bet.With TT it is good to isolate so continue to raise with this hand. Then, if just one overcard shows up on the flop you can throw out a bet to make the guy fold. The good thing about raising preflop with this hand is that you will win two ways in this hand 1.) you hit a set and win/your overpair is good 2.) your opponents don't hit their hand and they fold to a flop bet. I strongly disagree with the notion that you should be limping with TT, this hand is far better than many other hands and should be at least raised preflop. A general rule for pocket pairs that 2-4 you limp in late position but not early 5-8 you limp anywhere with sufficient callers (you normally need about 4) 9-J you raise preflop then call a reraise preflop, Q-A you raise preflop then try to cap if you get reraised.Hope this helps, good luck and keep up the grind.[Edit] Ok, yeah maybe you are going to want to raise ATs in late position, middle position becomse about a 50% shot whether I will raise with it.

[AKQJs_2o]

SmokeyMcPot said:

Raise TT from any position. An overcard will come on the flop about 60% of the time, but noone his holding that particular card 100% of the time. Raise TT from any position.

Hmm ... so noone is holding a flopped overcard 100% of the time?Could you elaborate?Man, I've got alot to learn about this game. :wall:

[Jtmaroon84]

AKQJs_2o said:

SmokeyMcPot said:

Raise TT from any position. An overcard will come on the flop about 60% of the time, but noone his holding that particular card 100% of the time. Raise TT from any position.

Hmm ... so noone is holding a flopped overcard 100% of the time?Could you elaborate?Man, I've got alot to learn about this game. :wall:

Goes with what I was saying, when that overcard comes on the flop there is not a 100% chance that somebody hit it to make a pair, go ahead and throw a bet out and continue to raise the likes of TT preflop. I would suggest doing some reading on the subject, this is a pretty simple concept in poker.

[SmokeyMcPot]

One or more overcard will come to your pocket tens about 60% of the time.Let's say a flop like: J 5 2 Noone is holding a J 100% of the time. In other words, even though an overcard comes 60% of the time, your hand is good far more than 40% of the time. Not only that, in most limit games, your equity edge gos up with more people in the pot, and your win percentage gos up with less people. So TT is a good hand no matter what type of game, no matter what position.

[randomization]

It's just not true that TT deserves a raise everywhere. If you know you're getting exactly three or four callers, you don't want to raise. You're not getting the right odds to draw to a set, if an overcard hits, the odds are pretty good that someone has it, and even if no overcard hits, thanks to your raise, AK or KQ have the odds necessary to draw to their overcards, hurting your chances further. In that situation you'd be better off not raising, betting when the flop comes without overs (so that people don't get odds to draw) or when you flop a set. Of course, most of the time you don't know you'll get exactly three-four callers, so it's still worth a raise. But there are definitely game conditions where raising tens is a bad idea. I wouldn't raise ATs in most of the games that you'll be playing. In late position, you can raise it for a steal, if no one is in already, of course. But if you've got limpers, there's not a lot of reasons to raise with it in a game full of weak players.

[fryer98]

SmokeyMcPot said:

Noone is holding a J 100% of the time.

ummm, WHAT? 100% of the time no one has the J??

[wrto4556]

fryer98 said:

SmokeyMcPot said:

Noone is holding a J 100% of the time.

ummm, WHAT? 100% of the time no one has the J??

That's not what I said. read it again.

[randomization]

You're right that that's not what you said..especially since the original poster was SmokeyMcPot, not wrto4556. You two the same person?

[trentose]

randomization said:

You're right that that's not what you said..especially since the original poster was SmokeyMcPot, not wrto4556.  You two the same person?

Follow the clues...

[fryer98]

wrto4556 said:

fryer98 said:

SmokeyMcPot said:

Noone is holding a J 100% of the time.

ummm, WHAT? 100% of the time no one has the J??

That's not what I said. read it again.

Can someone help me out?? I know I'm dumb, but didn't think I was THAT dumb.

[wrto4556]

They are not going to be holding a J when a J hits the flop 100% of the time....get it? They aren't always going to have the jack. :-)

[fryer98]

wrto4556 said:

They are not going to be holding a J when a J hits the flop 100% of the time....get it? They aren't always going to have the jack.  :-)

Ah, duh. You see how I was reading it, right??I read it as: 100% of the time, no one is going to pair the high card.

[wrto4556]

fryer98 said:

wrto4556 said:

They are not going to be holding a J when a J hits the flop 100% of the time....get it? They aren't always going to have the jack.  :-)

Ah, duh. You see how I was reading it, right??I read it as: 100% of the time, no one is going to pair the high card.

I know. :wink: