AvoidReality 0 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 7d, 7h. MP2 posts a blind of $2. CO posts a blind of $2. 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 raises, CO (poster) calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.Flop: (16 SB) 7s, 2d, Kd (8 players)SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 raises, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.Turn: (11 BB) Qh (3 players)BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets, BB calls, Hero raises, MP3 calls, BB calls.River: (17 BB) 9d (3 players)BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.Final Pot: 17 BBIM always lost at what to do here, i have a huge hand but the most obvious draw has just hit, do i bet and call, bet and fold, check and call? Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaOmega 0 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 I would raise that flop.Pot is big enough so that most flush draws are coming along anyway, and we most likely won't be able to make them draw unprofitably by charging them two cold on the turn.Ergo, let's get some value.Given that you didn't, I'd bet the turn. MP's raise could easily be for a free turn card, and that would mean -2BB for you, maybe more if they're frisky, on the turn. Free cards to hands that beat you in big pots is bad.I'd also value bet the river. The pot is massive, nearly every hand that made it this far is calling, and I think this offsets the potential value lost by getting c/red or raised by a made flush. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please 3 bet the flop. thank you.River bet. Yeah, you have to call. Link to post Share on other sites
rwood 0 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 NO NO NO NO NO NO NO do not 3 bet the flop!you played the line perfectly on the flop and turnyou can get in a double sized bet on the turn to a non scare card, plus IF bb is on a flush draw his equity is bigger on the flop, the turn cr puts more money in the pot when you have more equity and the flush draw has odds to call, whereas on the flop he has odds to raise. he is paying YOU equity on the turn, but you are sharing equity on the flop. bet the river anyways against the 2 players...i agree with the line on the flop Link to post Share on other sites
AlphaOmega 0 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 you can get in a double sized bet on the turn to a non scare card, plus IF bb is on a flush draw his equity is bigger on the flop, the turn cr puts more money in the pot when you have more equity and the flush draw has odds to call, whereas on the flop he has odds to raise. he is paying YOU equity on the turn, but you are sharing equity on the flop.We can't get in a double sized bet on the turn if BB doesn't lead, which is likely given the agression shown on the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 our equity edge is way to big on the flop to wait for the turn.We pump it now while others still think midde pair has a chance, and before another scare card comes.This flop had to be maxed out.It's very possible that the flop is capped, and we still get to raise the turn.We may be sharing equity on flop, but oours is 15% or so higher, right?THat's a lot in poker. Link to post Share on other sites
rwood 0 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 line was bb led flop you call pfa raised bb call you callyou can CHECK RAISE THE pf and f aggressor and get 2 bets in on the turnam i sounding crazy here? or i may have misread the hand... Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 I see that point.and free card play?that would suck.With c/r we get 2 extra BB.With flop 3-bet wie get 1 extra BB, and sometimes it's capped, so 2 BBon ave, I think we make more chk-3 betting flop.Alpha may like raising flop right out, but I like chk-3 bet, feeling pretty good 1 of next 5 raises. I can see an immediate raise benig better too. Link to post Share on other sites
rwood 0 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 well lets count heresay the flop gets 3 bet by you you gain 3 bets from each player or 12 dollarsnow say you cr the flop on the turn you get 2 bb's from each player, or 16 dollars, plus they are going in when your equity is highernow if you the flop is capped then you recieve 16 on the flop from each player but with a smaller equity edgeso by keeping it 2 bets on the flop, then cring the turn, you get a total of 24 dollars and more money goes in with higher equity edge3 betting flop lead turn 20 dollars netted, less equity when money goes inflop gets capped lead turn 24 netted but less equity when money goes inso by waiting for the turn cr we are getting the most money in the pot with the highest equity edge....unless i ****ed up on this, dont think i did, it seems right...lol Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 its easier for me to keep $$$ out.lets just talk about marginal gains.Flop, we 3-bet.We get 2 more SB or 1 BB.But then, we lose the c/r on turn and get 1 BB per personTotal 3 BB****We just call flopWe make o extra betsWe can now c/r turn and make 2 BB per personTotal 4 BB.*******now consider: times flop is capped, "Yeah!", times turn is checked thru "Boooo!" and I think we are better of 3-betting flop. Soetimes BB leads turn and we don't make two bets from other guy.If the Kd were the 9d and we had JJ, I can wait fro a safe turn.Our equity is so big on flop here I don't care that it's getting bigger later. Theres also plenty of turn cards that slow villans down. Including pairing the board & flush cards.IMO, you assume a FD is out too much here, and even if it is, I want to see the flop capped.We are going to be going around a lot! lol Link to post Share on other sites
rwood 0 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 well from my experience, i played 2/4 for a LONG time, the turn is going to be checked such a small percentage of the time that it wont matter...IMO he's raising with a STRONG MADE hand...so i would go for getting the big bets in with more equity, espescially because of the fact that you make 1 full bb extra with MORE EQUITY, that makes me salivate...thats just my opinion on playing the hand, 3 betting flop leading turn is safer...but IMO you dont get checked behind enough to make it matter....i'd go for the c/r Link to post Share on other sites
Sysvr4 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 River is a bet/call.Jeff Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 River is a bet/call.JeffGood contribution.I second.Actuary and Rwood can have their own debate. I'm siding with just pounding the pot. He seems to like his hand, why does he have to slow down with it?- Zach Link to post Share on other sites
Briguy 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Flop: (16 SB) 7s, 2d, Kd (8 players)SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls,Don't do that. The pot is already huge, and your current equity is something foolish like 80%. Your equity is not going to increase substantially on the bigger streets. Make the flush draws pay now. You'll be really happy you did if you boat up and the flush hits.Slowplay small pots, to make them bigger. Play large pots fast, to make them ginormous. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I'm all for pumping flop.Can we risk waiting to 3-bet the pfr'er, because I'd really like to trap more players. Then again with pot so big, most callnig 1 are calling 2 anyway, just thinking we get 3 bets sometimes that way. Link to post Share on other sites
Absolute 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I'm raising the flop and leading the turn.This is a heavy action multi-way pot. FPS is unnecessary here.Hi by the way. Link to post Share on other sites
Briguy 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I'm all for pumping flop.Can we risk waiting to 3-bet the pfr'er, because I'd really like to trap more players. Then again with pot so big, most callnig 1 are calling 2 anyway, just thinking we get 3 bets sometimes that way.I like that, too, if I'm certain that Mr. PFR will raise behind me. Link to post Share on other sites
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