thecamelot 0 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Game is fairly loose and passive, as are most 2/4 games here.. This is as close as I remember Preflop: I call UTG with 2c2s, UTG+1 raises, MP3 calls, BB calls, I call.Flop: [8SB] 2h Ad Kd (4 players)I bet, UTG+1 raises, MP3 cold calls, BB calls, I call.Turn: [16SB] Qd (4 players)I check, UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, bb folds, I call.River: [11BB] Jd (3 players)I check, UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, I fold.Shoulda 3-bet the flop I think... Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 c/r cap flop all daylead turnkill dealer., Link to post Share on other sites
doubleatrain 0 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 c/r cap flop all daylead turnkill dealer.,Doesn't a check raise just likely have us raising a bet from our left, giving crazy odds to anyone with the multitude of draws that are out? Don't get me wrong, putting more money into the pot is great with a set, but that's a dangerous flop either way. I just figure if UTG+1 is going to raise that flop (which he probably is), have him face the field with two right away.This could be a flawed argument, I'm just legitimately curious. Link to post Share on other sites
rwood 0 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 getting raised on that flop after leading out, it's an easy check raise on the turn if a blank comes, river sucks i fold with the other guy callingas for double trains comment, this has to do with shared equity, you're going to pay off top set all day long. so thinking in line that your set is the best MADE hand, you are sharing most equity with the person with the big draw ie flush draw, so it's still good to get as much money as possible in...you played it perfect IMO. you are correct to be charging them though...you want as much money in there as possible with your set...i like your line of leading out too by the way, many people would c/r here, but that just makes the other guy have better odds to chase, you are cutting his odds in half by ccing two on the flophand sucks, but NH Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 with location of pfr, I want to c/rPot is not so big that I need to protect my hand at allWe have huge equityMuch more than FD has, right?I want most money in and I want hands that are drawing almost dead to call, and call again. The strong draws are calling two cold anyway, lets get the weak draws in. Link to post Share on other sites
rwood 0 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 we our equity edge is by no means HUGE, it's between 45-55 tops multiway the flush draw has a little less than we do, the other people in this hand are paying off both our equity, i think leading the flop has it's pluses and c'ring does also... Link to post Share on other sites
doubleatrain 0 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 I can definitely see either way working, but I do like what Actuary said about getting the people who are drawing VERY slim to toss some dead money in the pot since we can't protect no matter what we do. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 45% is HUGE equity in a 4 way pot.It's almost double our portion of the pot! Link to post Share on other sites
rwood 0 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 sorry thought it was 3 way, i should work on reading better, yes our equity is huge raising the flop is by no means incorrect...there are a few different correct ways to play this hand...IMO actuary's is very correct...probably the best wayi usually think while i type, and after typing that last paragraph i like raising that flop, keep the hand straightforward, a 4 way pot with this board needs to be as clear cut as possible get your money in while you KNOW you have the best of it so when you get reraised after a scare card comes you can count your outs and call or foldcheers actuary good hand analysis...im a donk... Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 much respect.from you, I know I"ve come far! *****btw, note on one KK hand I'm the one touting raise flop / fold turn UI.And on the othe, I"m not sure I"m calling down, although I said raisng flop seemed wrong... could be one of those things that is so close in EV that it depnds on my mood for response. But I"m hoping to recall subtle difference that make me defend the seeming inconsistency. One has 1 more player, a bigger pot, and was capped by villn preflop, the other, we did not cap with KK, and thus vilan will bet into us with less than an Ace more often... oh well.. hijacking over...****** Link to post Share on other sites
rwood 0 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 lol you lost me with that rambling paragraph of hijacking..lol i think i might play a few hands a little more aggressive than i should for 2/4 but the KK raise with the ATx flop is def. warranted at 5/10, only because you have people getting out of line more... Actuary Posted Today, 2:56 PM much respect.from you, I know I"ve come far! when did i start getting respect on FCP?!?!??!?! lol Link to post Share on other sites
Valetdetrefla 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 fold preflop Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 fold prefloptight ass. Link to post Share on other sites
Absolute 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I fold this preflop in a lot of games.Probably not this one though. Link to post Share on other sites
thecamelot 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 In a live b&m 2/4 game, particularily as loose/passive as this one is, theres no way i'm folding it. The play is so terrible you get paid off huge when you hit a set.FWIW I was contemplating between c/r'ing the flop and betting to protect, and I chose betting. I'm still not sure which is the correct play. I think it's a clear c/r when there are no flush & straight draws on the board, but a bit closer given the board. How wrong is that thinking?And, for the record, he had Kx Td and caught runner runner royal flush. I'll kill the dealer. Link to post Share on other sites
doubleatrain 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 FWIW I was contemplating between c/r'ing the flop and betting to protect, and I chose betting. I'm still not sure which is the correct play. I think it's a clear c/r when there are no flush & straight draws on the board, but a bit closer given the board. How wrong is that thinking?And, for the record, he had Kx Td and caught runner runner royal flush. I'll kill the dealer.Since Actuary set me straight on this one, the thing worth noting is that a bet doesn't protect your hand from likely draws (even when the player to your left raises), and you've got crazy equity either way. Get more money in the pot with your big hand, and let those drawing dead call you. You want that. A lot.That's a frustrating beat, though. Killing the dealer is expected, though still frowned upon in most cardrooms. Link to post Share on other sites
Valetdetrefla 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 In a live b&m 2/4 game, particularily as loose/passive as this one is, theres no way i'm folding it. The play is so terrible you get paid off huge when you hit a set.FWIW I was contemplating between c/r'ing the flop and betting to protect, and I chose betting. I'm still not sure which is the correct play. I think it's a clear c/r when there are no flush & straight draws on the board, but a bit closer given the board. How wrong is that thinking?And, for the record, he had Kx Td and caught runner runner royal flush. I'll kill the dealer.Which is why I fold preflop.... I know the games you mean and they are the most dangerous to medium strenght hands like two pairs and sets....inside straights and runner runner flush and straights are what makes the game "exciting" for these types of people. I like to be in position with low pockets to be able to drive people out rather than trap them....they like to be trappedToo many fish at a table can be sufficating. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Valet,while I still welcome you, I no longer suspect that you are a one special poster returning with his new name.. so that aside.your advice is frightenly horrble.I only play 2/4 and have never played Poker in a Casino.So I may be mistaken. Link to post Share on other sites
thecamelot 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 I disagree completely. Are you trying to tell me sets aren't worth playing in this type of game? 22 is a hand I either hit a set with, or get out, and I don't consider a set being medium strength. There is huge equity in there... With that specific hand, if it was heads up, it's 93% to 7% on the flop, I like my chances.Not that frustrating... Kinda funny I played it poorly though.I see the point for the c/r now... C/r and b/f are two plays I need to use way more often.edit:Actuary, 2/4 in the casino is equivalent to .25/.50 online, or worse. It's absolutely horrid play. Especially when the bad beat jackpot is so large, theres a ton of people playing just for that, and all they do is talk about it. It makes me cringe. Link to post Share on other sites
Valetdetrefla 0 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Valet,while I still welcome you, I no longer suspect that you are a one special poster returning with his new name.. so that aside.your advice is frightenly horrble.I only play 2/4 and have never played Poker in a Casino.So I may be mistaken.If you're reading this that I would rather not flop a set in early position than not, I understand what you mean. What i'm saying is limping UTG with 22 at a B&M 2/4 table is a risky proposition at best. Not mentioning the fact that every PP will be in that hand, and that you might get raised, the amount of chasers cut into your chances of winning the hand by the river. 2/4 online is a completely different animal. But i suppose you shouldn't take my word for and read up on low pp in early position yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Actuary.Go to a casino. Play 3/6 or 5/10. You will not be able to control yourself from laughing at all the retards. Some of the guys are so retarded, they hold their cards out so the players on either side can see them. The rest are lag retards with no understanding of the game, and think they can bet their way.Last night, we had one guys SERIOUSLY refusing to play face cards, and played any 2, 3, or 4, and TOLD THE TABLE every time. He wasn't just putting on a show. He was showing down 3/4 off, cold called preflop, ALL THE TIME. We are talking like 100% VPIP types here. A table full of them. It's sexy.- Zach Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I would fold 22 in EP if the table was aggreessive and I'm often going 3 way for 2 bets to the flop, or 5 way for 3 bets, etc.but at a loose passive table, heck no.Valet, I don't care how many pots I win. Just how much money. Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 we our equity edge is by no means HUGE, it's between 45-55 tops multiway the flush draw has a little less than we do, the other people in this hand are paying off both our equity, i think leading the flop has it's pluses and c'ring does also...You have 50% equity in a 4 way pot IF someone has a flush draw. That is huge.Higher sets are not common. The vast majority of the time you have between 50% and 90% equity on this flop in a 4 way pot. Last night, we had one guys SERIOUSLY refusing to play face cards, and played any 2, 3, or 4, and TOLD THE TABLE every time. He wasn't just putting on a show. He was showing down 3/4 off, cold called preflop, ALL THE TIME. We are talking like 100% VPIP types here. A table full of them. It's sexy.- ZachAs a wise poker guru at casino rama once told me,Some-a-time you got ta play the low cahd. Evely one else play-a-the high cahd and then it all come out low and you win! Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Some-a-time you got ta play the low cahd. Evely one else play-a-the high cahd and then it all come out low and you win!niceI hate that you made me laugh Link to post Share on other sites
doubleatrain 0 Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Some-a-time you got ta play the low cahd. Evely one else play-a-the high cahd and then it all come out low and you win!That's totally true! It makes sense if you think about it!Sorry, just wanted to be that inevitable guy at every Party Poker table. Link to post Share on other sites
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