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Bay 101 Poll!


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Poll: Which one did he have? (234 member(s) have cast votes)

75 or 78?

  1. 75 (125 votes [53.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.42%

  2. 78 (109 votes [46.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.58%

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#41 Allknight

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 10:35 AM

Thanks Daniel for discussing this interesting hand with us here. Its pretty obvious that you fooled most of us here when you told us that you had 78s instead of 75s. This also shows me that if you fooled most of us you can also easily do that with your opponents in a tourney most of the time. Additionally since you stated that this was an interesting hand I think some of my fellow FCPers guessed you were getting tricky with the 78s. But I would imagine if you wouldn't have brought to our attention that this was an interesting hand more of us would have believed you played 75s and flopped an open ended straight draw and got there... Some people added that you wouldn't move in here with the nutz rather you would like to trap your remaining opponents. I am not so sure this is true with a possible flush draw out there Daniel I would be tempted to move in here also with 75s."Allknight" Adam
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#42 The Czar

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 10:45 AM

I'm looking forward to his Cardplayer explanation. If it was based solely on table image, that should have been in the original post. Otherwise, what was DN thinking? :club:
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#43 jneff24

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 11:01 AM

View PostVatche, on Monday, February 27th, 2006, 2:38 PM, said:

i voted for 78, and my guess is that the 8 was the 8 of spades as well... DN likes to raise utg with suited connectors...
I can't see him going all in with a pair of 8s and just a straight draw with one card to go against two players. He might of made that move with 78 of clubs, which would also give him a flush draw. But since he showed 7 of spades that wouldn't work.I voted 75 of spades.

#44 bweller`

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 11:09 AM

he had the 78 cause hes cool like that

#45 Vatche

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 11:35 AM

View Postjneff24, on Wednesday, March 1st, 2006, 11:01 AM, said:

View PostVatche, on Monday, February 27th, 2006, 2:38 PM, said:

i voted for 78, and my guess is that the 8 was the 8 of spades as well... DN likes to raise utg with suited connectors...
I can't see him going all in with a pair of 8s and just a straight draw with one card to go against two players. He might of made that move with 78 of clubs, which would also give him a flush draw. But since he showed 7 of spades that wouldn't work.I voted 75 of spades.
he gave us the answer already...he did have the 7 8 of spades.

View PostDanielNegreanu, on Wednesday, March 1st, 2006, 12:13 AM, said:

And the answer is... 78 of spades! I will explain why I did that in a Card Player column


#46 timbo83

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 01:41 PM

he had 2 jokers of course!!
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#47 JanDawg666

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 05:01 PM

I know if Danny has a great read he will play just about anything and sometimes calling to imply to his opponent that he has a monster and is slow playing it. It's not fishy just has to have good reasoning behind it and since Daniel is who he is, I would possibly bet that we was making a move but he can't be bluffing everytime just the same as he can't have a hand everytime and am going to put him on the 75 in this situation. He also doesn't mind playing suited gutters, which makes me believe he might have seen a flop with 75 of spades. This is Daniel we're talking about and it doesn't matter what cards you have if you know what the other player has and you believe that you know what he's thinking you have and can represent anything you want. Cheers!
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#48 emersoj2

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 05:44 PM

7 5 all the way. He is great at reading players, but he also likes to have something to back it up. He also won't put it all in on a bluff when he's not quite sure about his read

#49 D. B. Murdock

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 05:50 PM

Had to be 78s. I don't see the Kid raising with 7-5 under the gun, and also don't see him pushing in for that much with the nuts although there was the flush draw out there and he didn't have much left. ...and specialness is a word, Kid.

#50 XXEddie

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 06:04 PM

View PostHoosierAlum, on Tuesday, February 28th, 2006, 3:25 AM, said:

7c8c or the hand really wouldn't be that interesting.
To you and Jordon above who said 97 of clubsDN flashed him the 7 of SPADES, neither of your hands is possible

#51 AndyG1

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 09:03 PM

My answer would have been the 4s 7s just because Daniel said the hand was "super interesting" and that would have been the case 4.

#52 Vatche

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 10:17 PM

i find it funny that people are still voting for 7 5 and still posting that 7 5 is their guess after hes already told us the answer. :club:

#53 Jordan

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 10:21 PM

View PostXXEddie, on Wednesday, March 1st, 2006, 6:04 PM, said:

To you and Jordon above who said 97 of clubsDN flashed him the 7 of SPADES, neither of your hands is possible
lies.it was 7c9c. no spades.- Jordan

#54 shmivo

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 07:24 AM

View PostPatty74, on Monday, February 27th, 2006, 2:22 PM, said:

Cast your vote here to guess what Daniel had in his hand. Here is the hand below in case you missed it:2:03pm: "Just played a SUPER interesting hand. Up to $17,500."2:04pm: "I made it $400 UTG LP call BB made it $1,200, call, call. Flop Qc 6c 4h. BB bet $1,500. Call, call. Turn 8. Check. I go all in for $9,625. LP player studies me for 5 minutes with bottom set! He lays it down. BB lays it down...What did I have? Tell you later..."2:09pm: "I showed the kid the 7 of spades and he is still talking about it. He is convinced I had 7 5 or 7 8...What do you think?!"


#55 GreasyTony

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 08:00 AM

The weird thing about Daniels description of the hand is when he says that the kid started going over Daniels possible hands after he saw the 7 as if it surprised him. What was he thinking about before he folded? If he laid down a set of 4s, he HAD to think Daniel had 7-5, QQ, 66 or 88. Which makes me wonder why Daniel showed the 7 at all (its not like when he showed Arieh the Qd to make him think that Daniel was just on a Draw and Arieh laid down the best hand)If Daniel wanted to get the kid off his game or induce future action, why not just show the 78?Obviously the Kid just wasnt thinking about what Daniel had at all. He must have just decided he didnt want to leave the tournament yet.I dont know if we can learn much from the way Daniel played this hand, but one thing for sure: the Kid could not have possibly played it worse. With 2 opponents, a flush draw and straight draw on the board, you have to put in a BIG raise on the flop with bottom set when acting last. If he thought he was trapping by flat calling the flop...he cant fold on the turn. Other than the board pairing, the only safer cards are 2,3 and maybe 10 (though BB may have TT)

#56 shpaget

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:05 AM

According to his blog, DN's read was a queen or a flush draw.So he bets all-in with 7s8s, amounting to a little more than the pot. What we don't know is if DN had Berkley covered.So, first, DN's read was wrong, but he got the result he wanted anyway.He bets big here because:a. he's losing to a queen and figures he can make a queen fold here - if the queen does call, he has several outsb. he's winning to a flush draw and i. won't cry if the flush draw folds ii. won't cry if the flush draw calls for a bad price with one card to dodgeHe bet to represent AA, KK, QQ, or AQ...it's apparent Berkley must have put him on QQ. DN may have even represented a made straight here, and in some ways did play it like a straight draw, but, judging by Berkley's reaction to the 7, it appears to me that Berkley did not put DN on the straight.It's also possible that Berkley was worried about the BB to act after him.A squeeze that was also probably on DN's mind - DN wasn't worried about the BB, but put Berkley in a position where he had to worry about the BB.There's definite third level thinking going on here with DN, and definitely 2nd level by Berkley - the funniest part is everybody's reads were wrong, but DN's bet got the result he anticipated anyway.
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#57 PieceOThePuzzle

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:37 AM

There are a few reasons Daniel only showed one card:1) To put the guy on tilt, thinking he may have been bluffed out of a pot (this is why I think Daniel showed Josh Arieh only the Queen of diamonds.. and it worked! Josh bluffed at the wrong pot later and Daniel took him out of the tournament.)2) To make people (not just his opponent) realize that he could be playing any two cards at any time so they cannot put him on a hand3) To show he will play as aggressively with 7-2offsuit as he will with A-A. that is all.. :club:

#58 ShakeZuma

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:44 AM

View PostVatche, on Thursday, March 2nd, 2006, 1:17 AM, said:

i find it funny that people are still voting for 7 5 and still posting that 7 5 is their guess after hes already told us the answer. :club:
yeah really....GO TO PAGE 2 PEOPLE

View PostAmScray, on 30 August 2010 - 12:41 PM, said:

one cannot possibly ascribe themselves to the larger (D) philosophy without first being a poon

#59 bema03

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 02:54 PM

DN made the wrong read on the flop regarding Berkley, saying he put him on a Q or flush draw. He made the correct read on the BB, thinking he was weak. He then acted accordingly on the turn, thinking he could get Berkley off a flush draw or the Q with his big bet, and thinking the big blind would fold as well. As it turns out, Berkley had a set of 4s and was putting DN on an overset. So DN got somewhat lucky there.Berkley should have forced the issue on the flop. Once the BB bet 1500 and DN called, Berkley should have come over the top if he thought he was ahead or folded if he thought DN had the overset. No need to wait for a scare card on the turn, especially with the flush and straight draws on the flop.

#60 PokerZombie

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 09:04 PM

I tell you why I voted 78 (likely suited):- First off from UTG, a raise with 75s/o is pretty nutty. I mean DN can play goofy and he 'projects' a wide hand range, but 75 UTG raise would be expensive way to advertise right?!? You have to flop pretty darn well to play 75 from UTG, or you have to have alot of good PF reads and your table image has to be significantly more intimidating (to bluff) than if you had 78s. DN still wouldn't deviate too far, too often from fundamentals no? While it is possible, it's less likely. - Other stuff about preflop The BB preflop reraise really narrows BB hand range (assuming not too tricky). What could he reraise an UTG raiser with? Most likely something like AK, AQ or PP, (my guess). DN reads not AA or KK so that further narrows the range. - Flop Given the flop texture Qc 6c 4h and BB's bet on the flop, BB is pretty much saying he has a pair (though it could be a set). Assuming BB is not too tricky, the pair means he can't have flush draw definitely no st draw. I guess that was one thing DN was thinking, he has a well defined situation.Now I would think vs a tightish player I now have alot of scare outs to a high probability bluff, straight / flush scare outs (how many??) . Those cards might just scare the crap out of the dude, (afterall it all 'fits' DN's hand range -haha). BB just wouldn't be able to call an all-in with a pair if a scare card came. If DN read him for just a pair (and that BB can fold), BB could even be afraid of a low 'two pair' or 'set'. I'm sure if BB is tightish / solid, he could think of lots of excuses to fold.Anyhow, I think Kiddo just calls the bet to see what Berk'e'ley (spell it right!) does. Unfortunately Berkeley calls, so DN probably has Berkeley on a flush draw, or a Q, not AA, KK (and I guess not a set!), however DN still has scare outs if no flush card comes. Turn card comes 8h, and it gives DN a pair and a gut draw, two pair draw / set draw, (no flush on board), but most importantly it gives him a great bluff opportunity. On the face of things it seems he has no pot odds to put his stack in there vs a pair (he needs like 4-1 against if a pair calls), but really his bluff equity is tremendous(!) vs a pair. Also he has a chance to improve to a hand that can win vs a pair. I.e. the gutter straight, two pair or set. Now if I put Berkeley on a flush draw he wouldn't have pot-odds to call either.- I thought the Berk'e'ley dude could have raised on the flop or called on the turn. I never read the original Super System before, but from what I hear about how it says to play suited connectors, this would be an interesting example hand!Interesting hand, I love it! :club:




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