15 replies to this topic

[Wingmaster05]

we need more hands...anyone even play today? this is from last session. nothing big, just want opinions.Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is CO with [8s], [7s]. 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.Flop: (10 SB) [9h], [Tc], [2s] (5 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.Turn: (9 BB) [3c] (4 players)SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks.River: (9 BB) [Jh] (4 players)SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.Tempted to cap but no stats on villain (appeared loose over like twenty hands)

[Actuary]

I don't raise flop.I cap river (well, I'm a wuss, but KQ only reaosnable better hand)Zach,our straight is <18% to hit on river, I don't think betting turn is for value

[Actuary]

eing bigger makes a semi bluff more worthy as we only need to succeed about 1/9 times, folding everyone. Thus it's a clear Bet if HU, but to me, not 4 handed. As far as equity goes, the current pot size is not relavant as we have to put in 1/n of the bets and have less than 1/n chances of winning. A stretch could be made we migt clean up pair outs, but with this board, our pairs are not outs.I'm not 100% sure on flop.With at last one over, I like a raise, with our hand, I want more players. Getting bet into on a 6 trun with a caler in between would be sweet. That would offset not getting the free card.

[screech]

I like everything.

[Sluggo]

I disagree with flop raise.It's not for value.Is it for fold equity? Could we win with a busted draw enough to profit?Is it to clean up outs? (And to a lesser degree, metagaming?) Are we folding KQ here?

[Wingmaster05]

Yes sluggo, i was folding higher straight cards from the others, unless they had a chunk of the flop. I don't want ragged high cards calling, as a turn paint against lots of players hurts my hand, plus folding the SB gives me the lead, which almost always means a free river unless I hit. Lots of gutshots call for one, fold for two.It's not that far from a value raise, is it?.No I don't expect to win this nearly enough with a flop raise.

[Briguy]

Sluggo said:

I disagree with flop raise.It's not for value.Is it for fold equity? Could we win with a busted draw enough to profit?Is it to clean up outs? (And to a lesser degree, metagaming?) Are we folding KQ here?

Basic free card play, with a smidgen of value (if all four call). It could even slow SB down if he was planning a check-raise with an overpair.

[Canada]

Sluggo said:

I disagree with flop raise.It's not for value.Is it for fold equity? Could we win with a busted draw enough to profit?Is it to clean up outs? (And to a lesser degree, metagaming?) Are we folding KQ here?

On a rainbow flop with 5 players, 2 already in for 1 bet, its easily for value.Add the freecard potential and its the perfect play

Zach6668 said:

Actuary said:

I don't raise flop.I cap river (well, I'm a wuss, but KQ only reaosnable better hand)Zach,our straight is <18% to hit on river, I don't think betting turn is for value

I was unsure on this. Does the fact that the pot is already 9 BB make any difference in this calculation, compared to if it were say 4 BB?- Zach

No. There is no value in a turn bet, and against 3 other players your net FE is close to 0 especially with the second club arriving.Taking the free card is definately most beneficial.

[Actuary]

ok, I was on the fence with flop raise, leaning against it.I've been converted.Also, misread action and did not notice a new player woke up on riverI still think we can cap here.

[Wingmaster05]

Actuary said:

ok, I was on the fence with flop raise, leaning against it.I've been converted.Also, misread action and did not notice a new player woke up on riverI still think we can cap here.

i agree, this is easily a set that waited for the turn and got foiled by the my check, not to mention countless two pair hands. I like the cap although it didnt seem obvious during play. Don't get passive in large pots!

[screech]

Actuary said:

ok, I was on the fence with flop raise, leaning against it.I've been converted.Also, misread action and did not notice a new player woke up on riverI still think we can cap here.

The river cap is really close.That J seemed to have helped his hand. His hand range is:J9TT/99/22KQQ887KQ/TT/99 should be discounted slightly. 22 should be discounted somewhat too. Given that the card puts 3 to a straight on the board, it is more likely that he 3-bets with a straight. Against an unknown, I think it's a call.

[Sysvr4]

Nh. This is the perfect spot for you on the river... you're putting in the 2nd bet and he puts in the 3rd. Since you can now call for 3 bets total I think that's exactly the right way to play it.If your positions are reversed, it's a little harder because if you 3-bet it you only get capped when you're beat.Jeff

[Actuary]

KQ and Q8 is all that beats us right?easy cap at 2/4.