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#41 Suited_Up

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 02:03 PM

DLizzle said:

Also, some of my favourite moves:The Blind Bet out - when there's some limping followed by a low uncoordinated unsuited flop and im in the sb or bb, I bet out with anything to represent some garbage hand that hit a garbage flop. Actually I'll even check raise here if it feels right.The Continuation Bet and the Continuation Bet Reraise - Continuation betting is an art. I like a flop where it is viable that it hit me while not being a great drawing board. The opponent has to be capable of a fold here, and you generally shouldn't try it as much when you have a maniac image.When the opponent continuation bets, reraise it if you feel like it is a continuation bet, and it is viable that you hit the flop, and if you can get a fold.*Danger Warning* The Pick up Dead Money Raise - Great play, but be very very careful with it. When there's high blinds and antes and at least a couple limpers, raise big, all in maybe, and try to pick up the pot. I still haven't perfected this yet, but the situation is very important. Image, stack sizes, players, etc. I would like some help with this move, but I know that it is great when it works.Huge Hand Plays - My favourite thing to do when I hit a big hand out of position is to make a small bet at the pot, looking to get a reraise. Obviously you want an agressive opponent here. Check raising is ok but  I'm not a huge fan. I mix it up in this situation, but the small leading bet is my favourite. When I mean small, say 1/3 of the pot.  Other than that, just try to figure out how best to get paid off, that's up to you.  Oh, and my final word, rarely slowplay. There is a time for it, but usually   be betting, even if you flop the nuts. So many advantages to this.
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#42 GrinderMJ

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 02:12 PM

Dlizzle, the dead money pick up play, I think works most effectively when you have about 4 to five times the size of the pot with all the limpers. I'll try to come up with a scenario where I think it's correct. Say the blinds are 300-600, you have about 10k. Utg and utg+1 fold, mp1, mp2 and cutoff all limp to you on the button with 9's. The pot is now 2700 including blinds, and you are risking 10k to win the almost 3k in the pot. i think scenarios like this are where you should employ this strategy. I think this works best with later limpers, avoid doing this against early limpers, as you could run into aces and kings trapping. Patrick, thoughts on this?

#43 Suited_Up

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 02:25 PM

GrinderMJ said:

Dlizzle, the dead money pick up play, I think works most effectively when you have about 4 to five times the size of the pot with all the limpers. I'll try to come up with a scenario where I think it's correct. Say the blinds are 300-600, you have about 10k. Utg and utg+1 fold, mp1, mp2 and cutoff all limp to you on the button with 9's. The pot is now 2700 including blinds, and you are risking 10k to win the almost 3k in the pot. i think scenarios like this are where you should employ this strategy. I think this works best with later limpers, avoid doing this against early limpers, as you could run into aces and kings trapping. Patrick, thoughts on this?
It worked well for me recently in the late stages of an MTT. I was short, but not completely dead yet. I forget my exact stack, but there were quite a few players who would limp in with a wide range, and try to hit a flop, but it wasn't usually strong hands.I think blinds were probably 400/800 or something in that range, and I probably had about 6k. I'm just guessing, but it's close enough. One early limper started a chain reaction, and I basically put everyone on marginal hands but taking the good odds, and I pushed from the SB with something that wasn't great, but something that I could stand a call if I had to.*I forgot* Also... The stacks who were limping weren't much bigger than mine, I got lucky in that sense, that my table was all pretty even, and couldn't call my raise without totally committing their stack, another big factor when doing this.I forget what I had as well, but I don't recommend doing it with total rags. I just wanted what was in the middle, but if called i stood a small chance still.Anyway, it worked, and I got 2nd. lol.But I think that a lot depends on your read of the table, and if they do a lot of limping like this.
-Kurt

#44 DLizzle

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 02:30 PM

I have another thing to say about continuation betting that I forgot. A lot of people flat call the bet on a draw, with a weak hand or with nothing hoping if you were bluffing you'll give up on the turn. If you sense this, you gotta have the balls to fire another barrel. I've won many key pots like this. Grinder, thanks for sending the cash. Maybe we can try some more side bets in the future, except a little more fair.

#45 PMJackson21

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 02:34 PM

GrinderMJ said:

Dlizzle, the dead money pick up play, I think works most effectively when you have about 4 to five times the size of the pot with all the limpers. I'll try to come up with a scenario where I think it's correct. Say the blinds are 300-600, you have about 10k. Utg and utg+1 fold, mp1, mp2 and cutoff all limp to you on the button with 9's. The pot is now 2700 including blinds, and you are risking 10k to win the almost 3k in the pot. i think scenarios like this are where you should employ this strategy. I think this works best with later limpers, avoid doing this against early limpers, as you could run into aces and kings trapping. Patrick, thoughts on this?
Like Kurt said, it has a lot to do with how the table has been playing, and more specifically the limpers in question. A majority of the time a limp = a marginal hand that probably can't stand a re-raise, and that applies even more so to the secondary limpers. Picking off limpers is an effective way to build your stack when you are short, and just as effective to increase your stack when you have a lot of chips.Patrick

#46 DLizzle

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 03:40 PM

up. This thread is good.

#47 GrinderMJ

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 05:12 PM

let me see taht sexy body go BUMPBUMP BUMP

#48 PrtyPSux

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Posted 19 February 2006 - 03:16 AM

DLizzle said:

Also, some of my favourite moves:
I'll add some more.C/R'ing the A high board- this is a specific play that I used more in mid stakes limit games, but I found out it translates well in NL tourneys. Say you raise from MP1 with JJ-88 in a deepstack tourney (blinds 25/50 you have 5k and you raised to 150) now your opponent re-raises you to 450, you call to try and flop a set but instead the board comes A27r you check and your opponent bets 700 into a 900 pot, if I know the villian can lay down KK I will often check raise to about 2k. Think about it, most people dont reraise AQ here, so AK is the only thing you really fear, but if he has a pair he fears any Ace. His 700 bet seems like he's trying to protect something so he most likely has 10's through k's. Stop on the flop N' Go on the turn- Every time I do this play I like it more and more.J10 in the SB, blinds are 200/400 you have a 15k stack MP1 limps CO limps Button limps SB completes. flop is J46 rainbow, SB checks, I check , everyon C's to the Button who bets 2k. SB folds. I usually just call and see that I dont get trapped by a set or a bigger J or w/e, if I call and the rest of the guys fold, I lead ANY turn , for about 3/4's the size of the pot. This gives me relative position and also keeps the pot small.raise PF in position, check the flop- a lot of times with decent hands like AQ or AK deep in the tourney I get a bit trickier, say I raise in MP w/ AK and get called by the LAG SB (even better if he plays back at cont' bets) ..the flop comes Jh6h3x. He checks, I check the turn is a 10c he bets half the pot and now I raise 3x his bet. This is a VERY strong play that cant be done all the time, but when in some circumstances you pick up a few extra chips. This is a good way to counteract someone that is consistantly playing back at you post flop.Anyway these are just some that I can think of at the moment, A lot of the plays I make are just made up on the spot because of a specific situation in the tourney so I cant really explain them. When I play my "A" game, I kinda play my hands a bit wierd sometimes, I really have NO fear in putting all my chips in with nothing if I think its the right time. I guess this is what prevents me from cashing as much as others (because I push on a bluff when people still really dont care about busting, like in mid-tourneys so they call with marginal crap) , but Im also pretty sure that most of the time I cash I make it to the final 2 tables because of this . What I really need to improve is folding marginal hands like TPTK, Overpairs, and two pair when I know Im beat.

#49 belatropic

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 07:23 AM

How about turning the TV off & actually paying attention Early in the tournament when accumulating chips makes life so much easier in the later rounds. After 30 minutes you should get a good read on the other players.

#50 MisterB

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 08:23 AM

Dealing with the one at the table who goes on a ridiculous run early in the tournament..How do I deal with that person that seems to be in everyhand and hit every flop and builds a massive chip lead early in the tournament? What are the ways to deal with that? Do I stay out of their way and hope to get moved to another table? Or do I go after them and try to calm them down? It just seems that at the beginning of every tourney someone will build up a huge lead (usually by playing poorly) and end up calling every bet to the river to try and get everyones chips... Too many times have I had an overpair or hit a set and had that person call with a flush draw..etc... Thoughts?Also I would like to know everyones thoughts on showing hands... I never show any hand bluff or not... And wanted to know if it is wise to show a good bluff everyonce in a while to encourage action later in the tournament?

#51 therrinn

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 08:28 AM

MisterB said:

Also I would like to know everyones thoughts on showing hands... I never show any hand bluff or not... And wanted to know if it is wise to show a good bluff everyonce in a while to encourage action later in the tournament?
The only times I'll ever show is if my blind play seems to be establishing a pattern behaviour that I don't want it to. In general, poker is a game of partial information - keep as much info from your opposition as possible.

#52 belatropic

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 08:47 AM

therrinn said:

MisterB said:

Also I would like to know everyones thoughts on showing hands... I never show any hand bluff or not... And wanted to know if it is wise to show a good bluff everyonce in a while to encourage action later in the tournament?
The only times I'll ever show is if my blind play seems to be establishing a pattern behaviour that I don't want it to. In general, poker is a game of partial information - keep as much info from your opposition as possible.
Anytime you win before the river (whether bluffing or the nutz), keep that information to yourself. You should be able to build your table image by the hands you show down. Uncheck that "Muck losing/uncalled hands at showdown" & use it to your advantage.

#53 Vick12

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Posted 23 February 2006 - 02:29 PM

View Postbelatropic, on Monday, February 20th, 2006, 8:47 AM, said:

The only times I'll ever show is if my blind play seems to be establishing a pattern behaviour that I don't want it to. In general, poker is a game of partial information - keep as much info from your opposition as possible.Anytime you win before the river (whether bluffing or the nutz), keep that information to yourself. You should be able to build your table image by the hands you show down. Uncheck that "Muck losing/uncalled hands at showdown" & use it to your advantage.
Bumpstickity Bumpstickity Bump Bump...Mods...There is so much good stuff in here this should be stickied at the top of this forum.Just my 2 cents.BTW...I like some of the new features...like the one that says PMJackson is lurking in the thread!PM..is that you in your avatar now?
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#54 doublemeup

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 08:50 PM

Bump :club:

#55 timwakefield

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 10:10 PM

View PostMisterB, on Monday, February 20th, 2006, 8:23 AM, said:

Dealing with the one at the table who goes on a ridiculous run early in the tournament..How do I deal with that person that seems to be in everyhand and hit every flop and builds a massive chip lead early in the tournament? What are the ways to deal with that? Do I stay out of their way and hope to get moved to another table? Or do I go after them and try to calm them down? It just seems that at the beginning of every tourney someone will build up a huge lead (usually by playing poorly) and end up calling every bet to the river to try and get everyones chips... Too many times have I had an overpair or hit a set and had that person call with a flush draw..etc... Thoughts?Also I would like to know everyones thoughts on showing hands... I never show any hand bluff or not... And wanted to know if it is wise to show a good bluff everyonce in a while to encourage action later in the tournament?
If I am being extremely aggressive I will show off a good hand now and then to keep everybody scared to play back at me.
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#56 doublemeup

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 10:12 PM

Ok first off lemme just say that the discussion in here is so great to see. This thread should be stickied. Now I know most of you probably don't respect my opinon which is understandable but I play a lot of MTT's and I do well. Everything that was said here I follow. You guys have done a great job telling the secrets to good results in MTT's. I think that stealing pots is very very important. I cashed in a tournament yesterday and the best hand I picked up in 2 and a half hours was 77. I had AK once and barely anything else. How did I cash you say? Well I just stole every pot when I had the opportunity. I wasn't being a maniac, I was just picking up blinds often and picking up an incredible amount of dead money.One play that wasn't mentioned here is one that I use often and I think its smart. When its late in a tournament and your in the bb with say 83o and the sb limps. You COULD just check and try and catch a flop but why not raise it up to say 3.5X the bb and pick up some dead money? Its not that good of a play if there aren't antes involved but you get the idea. My favorite part of poker is final tables without question and I've made a lot of them. I think its ultra important when you get there to be the chip leader or in the top 3 in chips. When you are, you can bully the table and if you use your chips wisely, you'll usually finish fairly high. You guys pretty much covered everything else. Comments?

#57 belatropic

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 10:30 PM

Yea, you have to be able to make that BB/SB move as well as steal pots to make the final table. Lessinger's Book of Bluffs offers many useful tips on this.I did have to laugh at your last line of your post though. If you arrive at the final table in the top 3 in chips you'll usually finish fairly high.Ya think. :club:

Quote

I think its ultra important when you get there to be the chip leader or in the top 3 in chips. When you are, you can bully the table and if you use your chips wisely, you'll usually finish fairly high.
Just funnin :D
‹^^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^^›

#58 doublemeup

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 10:32 PM

Hahaha...yeah one of those "Thank You Captain Obvious!"

#59 mk

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 06:57 AM

View PostMisterB, on Monday, February 20th, 2006, 10:23 AM, said:

Dealing with the one at the table who goes on a ridiculous run early in the tournament..How do I deal with that person that seems to be in everyhand and hit every flop and builds a massive chip lead early in the tournament? What are the ways to deal with that? Do I stay out of their way and hope to get moved to another table? Or do I go after them and try to calm them down? It just seems that at the beginning of every tourney someone will build up a huge lead (usually by playing poorly) and end up calling every bet to the river to try and get everyones chips... Too many times have I had an overpair or hit a set and had that person call with a flush draw..etc... Thoughts?
This depends completely on whether the player in question here knows what they're doing or not. If you play in some of the bigger tourneys, you'll run into LAGs who are really strong players. If this is the case, I try to avoid them as much as possible. An example: in a recent Stars $215, I started with Fischman at my table and he was lagging it up early, raising a ton of pots, and playing super-aggressively whenever he was involved. I played maybe one pot with him the entire first hour. But when I do play a hand against this type of player, I follow Harrington's advice and make a BIG preflop raise or re-raise because they will likely not want to commit too many chips preflop.On the other hand, if the player is a total luckbox and clearly has no idea what they're doing, I try to find any reason to play a pot with them. A specific strategy adjustment that I will make when playing aginst this type of player is to, again, increase the size of my pre-flop raises, because a lot of these players will call ANY raise preflop (especially if they've accumulated some chips), and in addition to hopefully isolating them, you get more money in the pot as a substantial favorite. Bizzle and I encountered just such a player in a Stars tourney not too long ago and we talked a little strategy. He could probably add more.

#60 Bizzle

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 08:05 AM

View Postmk, on Monday, February 27th, 2006, 6:57 AM, said:

This depends completely on whether the player in question here knows what they're doing or not. If you play in some of the bigger tourneys, you'll run into LAGs who are really strong players. If this is the case, I try to avoid them as much as possible. An example: in a recent Stars $215, I started with Fischman at my table and he was lagging it up early, raising a ton of pots, and playing super-aggressively whenever he was involved. I played maybe one pot with him the entire first hour. But when I do play a hand against this type of player, I follow Harrington's advice and make a BIG preflop raise or re-raise because they will likely not want to commit too many chips preflop.On the other hand, if the player is a total luckbox and clearly has no idea what they're doing, I try to find any reason to play a pot with them. A specific strategy adjustment that I will make when playing aginst this type of player is to, again, increase the size of my pre-flop raises, because a lot of these players will call ANY raise preflop (especially if they've accumulated some chips), and in addition to hopefully isolating them, you get more money in the pot as a substantial favorite. Bizzle and I encountered just such a player in a Stars tourney not too long ago and we talked a little strategy. He could probably add more.
Woah, I do a search for my name within posts and this is what turns up. :)I do remember the player mk is referring to (and he was truly awful). He called early all ins preflop (like blinds 25-50, 1500-2000 going in preflop) with A6 A3 K9 and J7. With a player like this, three rules apply.1) High unpaired cards gain in value. Hands like A10, AJ, AQ, AK, and even KQ become hands I am willing to put in large raises or reraises with against this player, due to the odds that he will call my bet with a ridiculous dominiated hand. For example, if I hold A10 in the SB and there is an EP raise to 400, most of the time I will just lay it down because I don't want to play an easily dominated hand OOP against the raiser. Since I know he has a crapload of chips and his calling range is huge, I would strongly consider firing off my full 3k if I think it is likely he will call off with some ridiculousness.2) Medium pairs lose value. When your opponent will call any bet with KJo, 10-10 becomes a hand that you want to take flops with. Remember, the flop will miss them 2/3 of the time, so take advantage of that fact. Anything from 77 to JJ I will try to see the flop for a single raise if possible, and then fire out a very very healthy bet on the flop for which I hope to get the horrible 2 overcard call with.3) Patience and speed rule the day. Play very patiently-versus the donk mk was referring to, I waited a full 3 rounds to play a hand versus him at the 100-200 level. We had played several big pots prior to this, and I had around 5600. He raises in late position to 600 and I jammed out of the SB with KK. He makes the awesome call with KQo and I get a crapload of chips. Do not be afraid to make overbets at the pot versus this player, as you will get paid off more often than you think. However, if you get all of your money in with 77 versus their K9 and they hit...well, you got what you asked for.
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