something new for me

[AlphaOmega 0]

2/4 9-max (9-handed)Reads:SB is 25 / 12.50 / 2.3 over 40 handsPre-flop: Hero is dealt Q J in the COfolds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB callsFlop:2 Q 5 SB bets, BB folds, Hero callsTurn:9 SB bets, Hero callsRiver:5 SB bets,I usually just raise the turn, but lately I've been thinking that there is merit to letting worse hands bet into me and trapping them for better value on the river when they are more likely to call, whereas raising the turn allows them correctly fold their worse hands.Thoughts?

[princeof56k 0]

Why not raise the flop?

[AlphaOmega 0]

Why not raise the flop?

Same reasoning for not raising the turn. I want him to keep betting at me with marginal holdings.

[mrdannyg 274]

i don't hate it. i dislike the PFR, but if this is part of a larger "raise more" strategy it ain't so bad. if it was two or three spots later, i'd be fine with it. by "don't like" i just mean i wouldn't do it, not that it's wrong.i'm really turn between raising the turn or river though.raising the turn gets you 2 bets there from a draw, and represents a set of queens (IMO). i think a lot of strong hands slow down muchly to a flop call/turn raise. unfortunately, a draw check/folds a missed river.river raise looks fishy and might get called by a missed draw with only a small piece.i like this better considering the 5 on the river pairing the board low. in most cases though, i think a raise the turn if it does not complete any obvious draws.nhdaniel

[Abbaddabba 0]

I dont think there's anything debatable about preflop.In the cutoff, im raising a lot less than JQ off in an unopened pot.

[screech 0]

Why not raise the flop?

Same reasoning for not raising the turn. I want him to keep betting at me with marginal holdings.

I'd raise the flop. His flop donking range is pretty narrow. Against his range you make more and lose less by raising early.

[AlphaOmega 0]

Edit: False Alarm

[AlphaOmega 0]

Why not raise the flop?

Same reasoning for not raising the turn. I want him to keep betting at me with marginal holdings.

I'd raise the flop. His flop donking range is pretty narrow. Against his range you make more and lose less by raising early.

What do you feel his range is?I think I lose most ace highs and mid pocket pairs by raising the flop though.

[mrdannyg 274]

I dont think there's anything debatable about preflop.In the cutoff, im raising a lot less than JQ off in an unopened pot.

no, i stand by what i said. two or three seats later i'm comfortable with it.bahahaha. this is why i don't respond to strat much anymore. i misread every single hand. i'm actually serious.i thought he was UTG+1.in CO, easy raise.

[Abbaddabba 0]

edit>>find(onthispage)>>"UTG"It only appears once, and it's in your post.

[zimmer4141 0]

Looks good if you feel you are ahead. This is an excellent spot to do this play, as there are no draws really on this board. I would usually raise the flop because I love to play as aggressively as possible in every hand to establish table image. My goal often is to not go to showdowns, so that people have no clue what I am holding.

[princeof56k 0]

My reason for playing fast on the flop is that it usually isnt a good idea to try and trap someone with TP and an ok kicker.

[AlphaOmega 0]

My reason for playing fast on the flop is that it usually isnt a good idea to try and trap someone with TP and an ok kicker.

I disagree with assigning arbitrary rules for trapping. I like trapping :-) Trapping should consider our opponents holdings and not just our own. I like squeezing the life out of weaker holdings.

[screech 0]

What do you feel his range is? I think I lose most ace highs and mid pocket pairs by raising the flop though.

Mid pp's, KQ-QT, A5-A2, maybe Q9s.Mid pp's aren't folding to a flop raise. Neither is Qx, neither is any Ax he may have.Mid pp's and Ax will often check the river UI. The only hand you really get extra value out of is QT.I really don't think this guy is running a bluff on this board either. If he was, he'd probably c/r the flop.

[screech 0]

My reason for playing fast on the flop is that it usually isnt a good idea to try and trap someone with TP and an ok kicker.

We have tp ok kicker....It's pretty unlikely this guy has anything below Q9.

[Sysvr4 0]

What do you feel his range is? I think I lose most ace highs and mid pocket pairs by raising the flop though.

Mid pp's aren't folding to a flop raise. Neither is Qx, neither is any Ax he may have.

This villain looks reasonable TAG-ish. You don't think he'd fold 66-99 to a flop raise? This board is completely uncoordinated.... what could Hero possible be raising here except a Q? At the least I think he folds those hands to a bet on the turn after you raise the flop.I really like how Hero played it. I know I sound like a broken record, but the much more difficult decision is how Hero reacts to to a river 3-bet.Jeff

[Wingmaster05 0]

 This board is completely uncoordinated.... what could Hero possible be raising here except a Q?  Jeff

So many players make it an automatic raise on the flop if they were first in, I don't ususally assume a pair when the preflop raiser makes it 2 on the flop.

[Sysvr4 0]

So many players make it an automatic raise on the flop if they were first in, I don't ususally assume a pair when the preflop raiser makes it 2 on the flop.

I rarely see people raising flops like this with whiffed overcards and underpairs. Does it happen? Sure, but I'd venture it's a minority of the time rather than the other way around.Jeff

[screech 0]

So many players make it an automatic raise on the flop if they were first in, I don't ususally assume a pair when the preflop raiser makes it 2 on the flop.

I rarely see people raising flops like this with whiffed overcards and underpairs. Does it happen? Sure, but I'd venture it's a minority of the time rather than the other way around.Jeff

I see it happening more than enough to make me call down with any Q. Also, the ace hands he has that he would bet either include a pair, or a gutshot. They're not going anywhere.Mid pp's are close. If hero calls the flop and turn, villian won't always bet the river, and he probably won't call a raise. He won't always fold a mid pp because it's six max and no one believes anyone.

[Garn 0]

At first I didn't like the play. I thought that it was risky if b/c if an A or K hits on the turn or river you good be drawing slim. Howver, when I thought about it more I decided that it was a pretty good play because if an A or K does come you can get away from your hand without putting too much money into the pot.

[Sysvr4 0]

I see it happening more than enough to make me call down with any Q.

There's no debate there. This isn't about calling down... we have the best hand the vast majority of the time. This is about extracting the most value from it and I believe OP did so.

Also, the ace hands he has that he would bet either include a pair, or a gutshot. They're not going anywhere.

If I raise this flop and bet back into you on the turn I surely hope you'd fold A5s, A9s, A2s, 33, 44, 66, 77, 88. Depending on the villain you should probably fold TT and JJ as well. My point is why should we give villain a chance to fold if we think we have the best hand, we have position, there are no real draws, and he's betting?

Mid pp's are close. If hero calls the flop and turn, villian won't always bet the river, and he probably won't call a raise.

That's the only questionable part is whether he'll call a raise. I think he calls a river raise out of morbid curiosity more often than people call down from a turn raise. That's why I like OP's line. I use it frequently myself on opponents as aggressive as this guy.Jeff

[screech 0]

My point is why should we give villain a chance to fold if we think we have the best hand, we have position, there are no real draws, and he's betting?

Because he's not donking this flop with nothing. He likes his hand somewhat. There are a ton of cards that may make him slow down or give up altogether. Like I said, I don't think villian is folding a mid pp here. Usually, he'll hope you're raising wiht overs/a weaker pair, cuz that's what people do in SH games. If yo uraise the river, he probably won't call unless he has you beat. If you raise the flop, he probalby will call you down. If you don't raise the flop, he may bet the turn, but he will probalby chekc the river.

[AlphaOmega 0]

Screech,This isn't six-max. It's basically a full-ring game.This might change your perception on what hands he folds/doesn't fold to aggression on particular streets.

[princeof56k 0]

My reason for playing fast on the flop is that it usually isnt a good idea to try and trap someone with TP and an ok kicker.

We have tp ok kicker....It's pretty unlikely this guy has anything below Q9.

I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. I did a poor job of writing the statement you quoted so its possible you misunderstood me.Here is what I meant to say:When we have TP and an ok kicker, it is not a good idea to try and trap someone.

[screech 0]

Screech,This isn't six-max.  It's basically a full-ring game.This might change your perception on what hands he folds/doesn't fold to aggression on particular streets.

Yeah. Ok. I'm an idiot.Good plan.