when do you fold aces pre-flop?

[Nudjer 0]

I was just on Phil Hellmuth's site and was reading his hand of the week...Found here http://philhellmuth.com/hand_of_the_week.php Any way I was wondering, about this question. When would I , myself even think of doing this? I think if I was dealt Aces on the first hand of the main event of the WSOP, I might then muck them if some one went all in right away. Reason, well your less then 50% to win, and who wants to go out on the first hand like that :oops: But You could easily double up right here? Just wondering what some of you would do? Or if you have heard of anything like this.

[gobears 0]

I was just on Phil Hellmuth's site and was reading his hand of the week...Found here http://philhellmuth.com/hand_of_the_week.php Any way I was wondering, about this question. When would I , myself even think of doing this? I think if I was dealt Aces on the first hand of the main event of the WSOP, I might then muck them if some one went all in right away. Reason, well your less then 50% to win, and who wants to go out on the first hand like that :oops: But You could easily double up right here? Just wondering what some of you would do? Or if you have heard of anything like this.

If it was the first hand of the WSOP, you should call the all-in bet. Why do you say that you are less than 50% to win with aces? You're the big favorite with aces in any heads-up situation. If your aces get cracked, well at least you went out guns blazing.Phil's article is dealing with a specific example of a super satellite where you are guaranteed a spot in the next tournament by just blinding yourself off until someone goes out because you have a massive chip stack. In that case, there is no benefit in calling with the aces.

[Smasharoo 0]

In that case, there is no benefit in calling with the aces.Or doing anything but folding.You might as well go start playing in a side game while they blind you off.

[Suited_Up 2]

Why do you people always ask this stupid question. I would love nothing better than to have someone go All-In on the first hand and look down at Aces! Never fold them... Why is it even a question? Maybe I'll just never go All-In, so that I never bust out right? Or never double up... I guess if I have Quads, and someone goes all-in, I should probably fold, since they could have me beat with a Royal, or Higher Quads.. It's possible, and I don't want to lose!

[NormanHaupt 0]

man if I never left my house.. I'd never get killed in a car accident. So what/ I'm missing out on hot girls and beautiful things in the world.. but damn, I hate gambling.

[Smasharoo 0]

Why do you people always ask this stupid question. I would love nothing better than to have someone go All-In on the first hand and look down at Aces! Never fold them... Why is it even a question?Because a lot of tournament pros will double up without ever seeing a showdown. Putting your entire tournament at risk when you're likely to be able to buid chips with much less risk can seem like the better play to them.

[Awful 0]

When do I fold aces preflop? NEVER.I wonder if Sklansky regrets penning that section of TPFAP for all of its massive misunderstanding and misquoting. 1st hand of the WSOP you do it, without question. You're still at a point where tournament equity and chips have a direct relationship. You can't throw away a 4.5-1 or greater advantage to double up, you MUST take bets of that much +EV, and to think you'll have enough situations of greater edges than pushing with AA preflop is simply ludicrous.If I'm in 5th place in a tournament final table and FAR behind the top 4 who all go all-in on a hand, with a typical prize structure, I will THINK about folding aces. This situation will come up probably zero times in my life, so I think my earlier proclamation is correct. Tournament equity and chip amounts must have become separated by tournament stage, prize structure, and the actual chip counts for there to be any way to be correct in ditching aces.

[Emptyeye 0]

Basically what Awful said. Aces are at a 4/1 favorite pre-flop against one other person. The percentage goes down with each additional caller, down to something like 20% in a 10-handed pot (Which is still better than any other hand in that situation).So if, in the first hand of the WSOP, ALL NINE PEOPLE before me go all-in, I might fold it. That's about the only situation I can think of, though.

[KDawgCometh 2]

this is just a stupid question that has been asked way to many times. Why even ask this question in the first place unless your in the situation yourself and then you can sk yourself the question and stop filling up the board with "when should I fold Aces Preflop" threads. Seriously I don't normally get pissy, but I have had enough of these utterly hypothetical threads that may happen to one out of 20 people in a lifetime of tournament play

[allinbluff35 0]

I'll fold aces preflop when my $hit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbert.

[KDawgCometh 2]

I'll fold aces preflop when my $hit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbert.

the snozzberries taste like snozzberries

[NormanHaupt 0]

It's awesome, Captain. It's Afghanistainamation.You better get us back to jail, ja? You don't want us turnin' into pumpkins!I LOVE ACID!!Bend over and grab your toes. Imma show you where the wild goose goes. Baby, I'mma butter your bread.It's powdered sugar, it's delicious.Hey! YOU! You... You bear ******! Do you need assistance!?Let me guess, you humped the mayors wife and burnt down city hall?Three Kings! Read 'em and weap! WOOOO!YOU BOYS LIKE MEXICO!?What you saying? You gonna set my country music award on fire?Does this look like spit to you?What would you do with a million dollars? And you can't say buy the Cleaveland Cavs.I'd buy a million dollar carGood investment- but I'd still pull you overBullshit- I'd just activate my car's wings and fly away!And, of course.. the whole Shenanigans bit that I can't remember.I've seen the movie way too many times, this is all from memory lol

[jogsxyz 0]

man if I never left my house.. I'd never get killed in a car accident. So what/ I'm missing out on hot girls and beautiful things in the world.. but damn, I hate gambling.

There was a case of a person who died from a truck crashing thru his livingroom. He got killed from of a car accident without leaving his house.

[NormanHaupt 0]

funny.. you post that after I admit I watched a movie way too often, lol

[KDawgCometh 2]

And, of course.. the whole Shenanigans bit that I can't remember

here it goes to the best of my recolection( I am a big movie buff so)Capt: And you boys need to stop your shenanigansFoster: but our shenanigans are cheeky and fun and farva's are dumbWomack: weee litlle shenanigansCapt: if you say shenanigans one more time I'll beat you with the butt of this flashlightWomack: hey Farva what is that resturant you really likeFarva(poking his head out of the bathroom): its shenanigansWomack, Foster, and Ramathorn(pointing at the capt): ooohhhhhhhFarva: it shenanigans, shenanagins

[NormanHaupt 0]

And, of course.. the whole Shenanigans bit that I can't remember

here it goes to the best of my recolection( I am a big movie buff so)Capt: And you boys need to stop your shenanigansFoster: but our shenanigans are cheeky and fun and farva's are dumbWomack: weee litlle shenanigansCapt: if you say shenanigans one more time I'll beat you with the butt of this flashlightWomack: hey Farva what is that resturant you really likeFarva(poking his head out of the bathroom): its shenanigansWomack, Foster, and Ramathorn(pointing at the capt): ooohhhhhhhFarva: it shenanigans, shenanagins

That was really off, lolFoster: but our shenanigans are cheeky and fun. Farva's shenanigans are sad and tragic. Infact, they're not really shenanigans at all.Womack: Weee 'lil shenanigansCapt: If anyone says shenanigans one more time I'll pistol whip them!..Womack: Hey Farva, whats that resturant you really like- with the crazy shit on the wall and the cheese sticksFarva: *sticks head around the corner with a toliet brush* Shenanagins?Rammathorn & Womack: *pulls their pistols out offering them to the captain*

[KDawgCometh 2]

And, of course.. the whole Shenanigans bit that I can't remember

here it goes to the best of my recolection( I am a big movie buff so)Capt: And you boys need to stop your shenanigansFoster: but our shenanigans are cheeky and fun and farva's are dumbWomack: weee litlle shenanigansCapt: if you say shenanigans one more time I'll beat you with the butt of this flashlightWomack: hey Farva what is that resturant you really likeFarva(poking his head out of the bathroom): its shenanigansWomack, Foster, and Ramathorn(pointing at the capt): ooohhhhhhhFarva: it shenanigans, shenanagins

That was really off, lolFoster: but our shenanigans are cheeky and fun. Farva's shenanigans are sad and tragic. Infact, they're not really shenanigans at all.Womack: Weee 'lil shenanigansCapt: If anyone says shenanigans one more time I'll pistol whip them!..Womack: Hey Farva, whats that resturant you really like- with the crazy censored on the wall and the cheese sticksFarva: *sticks head around the corner with a toliet brush* Shenanagins?Rammathorn & Womack: *pulls their pistols out offering them to the captain*

I was doing it off the top of my head. I haven't watched it in a while, so you know

[pokernoobie 0]

who would fold pocket aces preflop really i mean if you fold aces preflop what the hell are u going to call with anyway? are u saying that all they have to do is go all in and u will keep folding? =

[twopinkeyez 0]

:shock: If i were at the WSOP or WPT main event and someone went all in from the start and i was holding AA. I would definitly go all-in. If he just calls, I would just raise a bit and slow it a bit. Or even just think hard about it for like a minute, then call.If you think this way, your never gonna get far. take chances & risks is what pokers all about!.But common, AA, go all -IN! go on your first instinct, and mine tells me to go ALL IN, i hate knowing that "I could've won" or "what if". just do it!.(to the person who doesn't go all in with that top pre flop hand, I hope you would of caught a set or 4 of a kind, just for you! :wink: )I have too many regrets in life to fold such an opportunity 2 double up! and if you lose that hand, so what, you made the right move. no regrets.AH, WHATEVER, DO WHAT YOU WANNA DO, IT'S YOUR HAND, NOT MINE. YOU DONT LOSE WHAT YOU DONT PUT IN THE MIDDLE RIGHT?JUST THAT, YOU HAD A GOOD CHANCE OF WINNING THOUGH.

[Jtmaroon84 0]

I died a little inside when i read this post. Nope, I would never fold aces

[Stylistic 0]

Lets say you're at the WPT final event with the lowest chip stack but still plenty in comparison to the blinds. Which means you're not starving but you just have the shortest stack. There are 6 players remaining. Lets say you're in 2nd position.Player 1 goes makes a raise, Player 2 ( you) Reraise with AAPlayer 3 goes all in Player 4 (chip leader) reraises all ineveryone folds to player 1 Who calls the all in.And you're sitting there with pocket rockets. You basically have a couple of choices here. Obviously we got some major pocket pairs going on in this group. I would say the chip leader ( player 4) has a big PP and Player 3 has a big PP. At least those two players have big PP kings/queens or even the other two aces. I would at least see 3 different sets of PP which means worst case there are 6 outs to get you eliminated, 4 at least is what I would think. YOu can A) take a chance and quandruple up or, being the smallest stack, you can get eliminated and be paid for 6th place because you got eliminated as the SHORTEST STACK.Or you can fold and be pretty sure that at least 2 players here will get eliminated moving you automatically to be paid at least 3rd or 4th place. If you're rich and you've been to the final table many times and only want 1st place, you'd make the call, but if you're there for the money you'd fold.Poker to me is an amazing game because of its' utmost unbelievable possibilities, you can come up with a situation to do anything. If you guys ask me if I can find a way to fold KK preflop heads up, I'll be gladly to some up a scenerio for you .

[JFarrell20 1]

We've already discussed this. Never in a cash game.Sometimes, in a large multi-way pot on the bubble in a tournament. Depends on payout structure, your chipstack, etc.

[Pupsta 0]

Foster: but our shenanigans are cheeky and fun. Farva's shenanigans are sad and tragic. Infact, they're not really shenanigans at all.

cruel and tragic

[AKQJs_2o 0]

When do I fold aces preflop? NEVER.I wonder if Sklansky regrets penning that section of TPFAP for all of its massive misunderstanding and misquoting. 1st hand of the WSOP you do it, without question.

I don't see why Slansky should regret it, he can't help it if people can't understand the idea. It was a pearl of wisdom to me.As I recall, Sklansky gave a situation where you were one of the final three players in a tournament, you were the shortstack, and the other two players went all-in. You fold the pocket Aces because SOMEONE IS GOING HOME AFTER THIS HAND and the tournament payout structure makes it worth your while to fold the Aces rather than to get knocked out of the tournamenmt and finish in third place.You fold the pocket Aces because you are guaranteeing yourself AT LEAST a 2nd place finish as opposed to a possible 3rd place finish and thus the smaller 3rd place payout. In that particular situation folding the pocket Aces is a smart play money-wise. It is a rare situation.