out of position 15/30

[zimmer4141 0]

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is SB with [8c], [8d]. 1 fold, BB calls, MP calls.Flop: (6 SB) [Ad], [7h], [As] (3 players)Hero bets, Hero calls.Turn: (7 BB) [Ts] (2 players)Hero checks, MP bets, Hero folds.I've been on a roll, so I'm kinda confused on this one. I thought 3-bet/peel/fold UI was the best line. Thoughts?

[AlphaOmega 0]

An idea would be to b/c the flop and then c/c the rest of the way.I'm thinking that we'd like a seven to keep betting at us, and we don't want to spew into someone that has us drawing to two outs.

[KDawgCometh 2]

why are we calling the three bet. Do u really think that u are gonna be able to pull off 4 or 5 BBs gained in a HU situation from the dude when we hit

[Abbaddabba 0]

Hero is the one who 3bet.By the time it gets capped, there are 6.5 big bets in the pot. If he has an ace, which he very likely does, we will generally get roughly 4 more big bets by the river. So we're getting paid 21:1 with implied odds. To hit one of our 2 cards on the turn, we're roughly 21:1 too. So it seems like basically a break even call, until you factor in the probability of him filling up (or already having filled up with A7) and the reverse implied odds that would carry. That pushes it on the side of folding if you knew he had an ace.Of course you dont know that he has an ace and in some freak circumstances, he may not. But you also arent prepared to call the turn, and he will bet the turn almost every time in these situations. So you need to treat it as if he does. And that makes it a fold i think.

[zimmer4141 0]

I agree the call of the cap is a little sketchy, but I guess I just don't use the 3-bet/fold line too often. I guess I just don't see him capping the flop with anything but an A or 77 usually here.

[PoppinFresh 0]

We're 22.5:1 to hit our 2-outer, factor that in with the fact that we lose sometimes when we hit and we're not getting near the right odds to call the flop cap and fold turn UI.I think I like the line you took other than calling the flop cap.

[KDawgCometh 2]

I agree the call of the cap is a little sketchy, but I guess I just don't use the 3-bet/fold line too often. I guess I just don't see him capping the flop with anything but an A or 77 usually here.

3bet/fold is a line that you will have to get used to at higher limits. since hands are HU or maybe 3 way often, you will have to learn when to put in the bets when ahead, and when to fold when u do put in the bets. I really think that folding the flop is best, and that u wasted a sb by calling and then folding the turn UI

[Abbaddabba 0]

If there was a flush draw on board, it'd be different.At least then there's a good chance that you're ahead, and when you are he will often check behind on the turn.

[jayboogie 0]

What's your plan if he calls the 3-bet on the flop and doesn't cap?

[kdogg 0]

What's your plan if he calls the 3-bet on the flop and doesn't cap?

Lead/fold turn? He could have 99.

[zimmer4141 0]

If he calls my 3-bet, I'm bet/folding the turn.

[jayboogie 0]

What's your plan if he calls your turn bet too?

[zimmer4141 0]

What's your plan if he calls your turn bet too?

Then I likely check/fold the river. Possibly check/call.

[fckthis 0]

Seems like spewing. Though, after you 3 bet, now you kinda put yourself in a position to peel.Would a c/r/fold be a financially better play?

[zimmer4141 0]

Seems like spewing.  Though, after you 3 bet, now you kinda put yourself in a position to peel.Would a c/r/fold be a financially better play?

Honestly, I never like to check after raising preflop. I always keep the lead with any hand, so that I can disguise strength occasionally.

[fckthis 0]

Yeah, Im the same, as is most people on this forum. But from my POV, I was looking at how you couldve lost less. Did you think about maybe not raising pf? If this was a "tough" game, playing out of position is not something I would strive for, especially with a hand such as 88.

[Actuary 3]

If I limped here with Ax, I'm not capping flop, btw.I'll let you bet into me on the turn.Is that bad?

[zimmer4141 0]

If I limped here with Ax, I'm not capping flop, btw.I'll let you bet into me on the turn.Is that bad?

No, that is definitely how I play Ax in this spot. However, I just don't see him having anything but Ax honestly.

[looshle 6]

If he's got 77, you've got 4 outs instead of 2. A little optomistic but hey, you need to factor it in.

[jayboogie 0]

What's your plan if he calls your turn bet too?

Then I likely check/fold the river. Possibly check/call.

Well which is it? Pretty big difference between check/fold and check/call on the river for this pot. You need to have a better plan for pots like this, either your deciding to show this down and check/call all the way down or your deciding that you no longer have the best hand and fold earlier. What are you putting your opponent on throughout this whole thought process? Does he limp with AX? Is he capable of pulling a bluff here without an Ace?Personally depending on my opponent, I'd opt for bet/fold on the flop to not put myself in a situation where I'm out of position with just a small pair and likely drawing to 2 outs. I might get bluffed out of the pot once in a while by a good play, but if you're never folding the best hand once in a while, you're not playing optimally.

[Guest]

Yeah, Im the same, as is most people on this forum. But from my POV, I was looking at how you couldve lost less.  Did you think about maybe not raising pf?  If this was a "tough" game, playing out of position is not something I would strive for, especially with a hand such as 88.

Limping in this position is horrible. You let hands like J5o in the big blind get a free shot at drawing out AND you're now in a 3-way pot where 88 isn't going to do well unless you hit a set, but you're only getting 5:1 on the completion with roughly 7.5:1 on flopping a set where you may not get paid off when you do hit.If you raise you put pressure on the other players to make a hand so you can get them to fold when they miss where they would be proper to call if they knew you had 88. Also by raising you are much more likely to get headsup where you have a better chance of winning AND picking up the pot without a showdown.Zara

[checkymcfold 0]

this might be a bit repetitive, but the plan to fold the turn UI should be replaced by a plan to fold to a flop cap. as abba said, the money's seemingly even to call the 4th bet at first glance, but we have to take into account the fact that he's going to boat up sometimes when we hit and we'll take a huge RIO hit in a HU situation. that kills our odds.but let's play the hypothetical game: let's assume that the flop contained two spades. now what do we do? (this would make a situation similar to one i ran into the other day against a LAG/tricky villain)EDIT: pf raise is a MUST, imho.