11 replies to this topic

[screech]

5/10 10-handed

I have AQo in MP1

PRE-FLOP
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, I raise, 4 folds, blinds call, UTG+2 calls.

FLOP [board cards 6D,9C,7S ]
Checked to me, I check.

TURN [board cards 6D,9C,7S,7D ]
Checked to me, I bet.

[econ_tim]

this looks good

easy to let go

and i think you'll take it 1/4th of the time at least

and sometimes you'll bet and get called and improved on the river

on the other hand, what do villain's think when you do this

if i saw this line, i might c/r with air

[KDawgCometh]

I think that this is a different situation. TIm's board also had a flush draw along with some mid range cards, and there was another person in the pot, IIRC. I'm making a continuation bet here like almost all of the time

[Abbaddabba]

I dont think that anyone will fold a pair here... and there's a good chance that they'll raise it. Or air. And you probably are going to have to fold to a raise. The way you played it reeks of missed overcards, and i think that almost everyone paying attention will notice that.

Why not just bet the flop?

[spikymarv99]

I don't like the check on the flop. Pull the string and fire a bet. The turn bet is asking for a check-raise. I put the villan on absolutely nothing, but he can't pass up this opportunity to check raise.

What is your image at the table? Do they think you are capable of checking an overpair on the flop to trap? If not, I would check the turn and if another blank comes on the river and he checks, I would check too. If he bets on the river, I would raise. I'm fairly confident that your nothing will beat his nothing If he had anything he would have bet the turn.

[screech]

Keith,

what does IIRC mean?

I realize the board is slightly different without the flush draw, but it is still very draw heavy. I don't think a flop bet gets rid of people all that often. They are likely to peel with overs, and call with just about anything else.

On the turn, that 7 doesn't change a thing. No one goes for the pot, so I figure I may have the best hand. Plus, I bet 99% of the flops after I raise pf, so my check is problem sending alarm bells off in some of my opponents heads. I bet for protection/value. I don't think I have to worry about anyone getting tricky with a resteal here. These guys were very nice.

Spicy,

the reason I bet the turn is because I did not want to give 3-players a chance to spike their 6-outters. If I was faced with a river bet with just overs, I would be in a very hard spot in this smallish pot.

Turns out I probably had the best hand. Everyone folded.

[GamblinLeaf]

what does IIRC mean?

If I Recall Correctly

[Sysvr4]

I like it. There's very little chance this coordinated flop didn't hit someone, but when they check again on the turn I'm reasonable sure you have the best hand.

Yes, a thinking/tricky player would c/r the turn with air, but I think that would be a pretty poor bluff. Would they really check a big hand to you again on the turn? I know I wouldn't. I think the turn is actually a bet/call.

If someone just calls and checks the river I probably check behind, depending on the opponent...

Jeff

[Abbaddabba]

I realize the board is slightly different without the flush draw, but it is still very draw heavy. I don't think a flop bet gets rid of people all that often. They are likely to peel with overs, and call with just about anything else.

Of course it doesnt.

And your turn bet wont always get rid of people. It'll only get rid of people when you have the best hand. And in an ideal world, nobody will EVER have anything - but you cant rely on that.

But on the flop, you stand a reasonable chance of getting smaller pocket pairs to fold if you follow it up with a bet. You potentially get a free turn. You disguise your hands better for next time when you have an overpair.

If you had 22 through 55 in the blinds, do you fold on that flop if you arent closing action? I think a lot of people do. Even though everyone has acted, you expect that people are routinely checking to the preflop bettor with something like middle pair.

[screech]

And your turn bet wont always get rid of people. It'll only get rid of people when you have the best hand. And in an ideal world, nobody will EVER have anything - but you cant rely on that.

I have a lot more information on the turn than the flop. If someone bets, I have an easy fold. If no one bets, I have an easy bet. I save money when I'm behind, and make money when I'm ahead.

But on the flop, you stand a reasonable chance of getting smaller pocket pairs to fold if you follow it up with a bet. You potentially get a free turn. You disguise your hands better for next time when you have an overpair.

I think it's just the opposite. Small pp's and overcards are more likely to call the flop than the turn IMO. That thing about disguising my overcards is ridiculous since I auto-bet 95% of flops when I raise pf.

If you had 22 through 55 in the blinds, do you fold on that flop if you arent closing action? I think a lot of people do. Even though everyone has acted, you expect that people are routinely checking to the preflop bettor with something like middle pair.

Again, I have much more info available to me on the turn. On the flop, I may be getting set up for a c/r. On the turn, I don't have to worry about that. 55 isn't going anywhere anyway. 22-44 may or may not. This what if game doesn't really solve much since the ifs are fairly unlikely.

[Abbaddabba]

You have a lot of information on the turn, but im not questioning whether or not you're in a favorable situation when it's checked through twice.

Obviously those are favorable circumstances.

It's just that you will rarely find yourself in those situations. And the times that you do, you would have been better off betting the flop because it likely means that no one had anything, and you missed out on value and/or protecting your hand.

When someone does have a small pair, you're probably still better off betting the flop, provided that they dont checkraise or gaybet the turn.
They will often both give you a free card, and occasionally fold if they arent closing action. That isnt a "what if" situation that rarely comes up. Small pairs in the blinds (both pocket pairs and ragged hands that hit bottom pair) will often fold if they arent closing action.

I think it's just the opposite. Small pp's and overcards are more likely to call the flop than the turn IMO. That thing about disguising my overcards is ridiculous since I auto-bet 95% of flops when I raise pf.

I'd be more inclined to call (or raise) the turn here than the flop out of the blinds, but more inclined to call or raise from UTG's position if it was folded to me.

[mrdannyg]

that line is often one i see not very good players who are trying to be TA make. if i'm in the hand, i see that line on that board, i call down with any pair, and consider making a bluff even with no pair depending on position.

having said that, i see this play work very very often. people often put the person on aces or a set (don't ask me why) but that's the case. i can't really explain it, but i see this play work pretty darn often against bad players, like those at 2/4 on party.