21 replies to this topic

[epistemic]

I don't care that I'm posting this in general poker, but I allowed myself 10 minutes of non-self-absorbed time and read this article, and I had nothing cynical or politically lambasting to say, just thought it was pretty incredible. Sympathetic American Soldier Brings Iraqi Boy HomeMAUSTON, Wis. (Feb. 20) - When Capt. Scott Southworth took his soldiers to a Baghdad orphanage in 2003 to befriend the children, a small boy with cerebral palsy immediately returned the favor, crawling across the floor to sit next to him."By the time we left that first day, he was trying to take off my watch or to do anything he could to keep me from leaving the orphanage," Southworth said.More than a year later, Southworth has made a return trip to Iraq and brought 11-year-old Ala'a back to Wisconsin, where Southworth now works as a district attorney.Iraqi law won't allow Southworth to adopt Ala'a, but he was able to bring the boy home last month under a "humanitarian parole" that lets him make sure the boy gets medical care and goes to school.Southworth, 32, who is single, knew the alternative for Ala'a was life in a government orphanage with little chance of adequate medical care or an education.Ala'a understands both Arabic and English, but must use a wheelchair and can't fully use his arms. When he served in Iraq from June 2003 to July 2004 as head of the Wisconsin Army National Guard's 32nd Military Police Company, Southworth visited the Mother Teresa Orphanage in Baghdad a few times a week for several months.He says Ala'a "really adopted me." Then he learned the orphanage would eventually transfer Ala'a to a government facility for older children and adults."One of the Iraqi doctors told me that if Ala'a went there, there was a good chance his life was over - and that wasn't just because he'd be warehoused in a room; he meant his life might be 'over,"' Southworth said.When he returned home last summer, Southworth launched his campaign for district attorney and his effort to bring Ala'a home."Humanitarian parole is very rare," he said. "I don't know if there has been another case like this."Lt. Gov. Barbara Lawton offered to help with letters of recommendation, as did Sen. Russ Feingold and Rep. Mark Green. Wisconsin doctors promised to provide free medical care for Ala'a, who isn't eligible for Southworth's health insurance.A few weeks after he started his new job Jan. 3, Southworth learned the U.S. Department of Homeland Security had approved the humanitarian parole, and he soon was on his way to Iraq.Ala'a was waiting for him at the Baghdad airport. Humanitarian parole lasts a year, but Southworth says it can be extended or other immigration possibilities will be available.Now Ala'a is enrolled in middle school, and already has two friends."I think I've been the lucky one," Southworth said. "He's making my life more fulfilling. I think, maybe, my lifestyle used to be focused on me. Now I have someone else to focus on."02-20-05 17:16 EST

[KDawgCometh]

its always nice to hear these things

[the_stein]

wrong forum

[Smasharoo]

its always nice to hear these thingsYeah it almost makes up for the thousands of children who died when we dropped boms on them or the tens of thousands who died because of sanctions.

[wrto4556]

the_stein said:

wrong forum

I'll stay self absorbed, thank you. I'm a mog. half man half dog. I'm my own best friend!

[creepy20]

Great post, It really touched my heart. I have a little brother with CP and that was just a great thing that person did. I know this is a poker forum but thanks for putting that article up.

[All_In]

Smasharoo said:

its always nice to hear these thingsYeah it almost makes up for the thousands of children who died when we dropped boms on them or the tens of thousands who died because of sanctions.

no, it doesn't come close to make up for the over 100 000 civillians killed, or the millions killed by the snctions.but i understand where u r coming from.

[KDawgCometh]

All_In said:

Smasharoo said:

its always nice to hear these thingsYeah it almost makes up for the thousands of children who died when we dropped boms on them or the tens of thousands who died because of sanctions.

no, it doesn't come close to make up for the over 100 000 civillians killed, or the millions killed by the snctions.but i understand where u r coming from.

I understand all to well where smash is coming from(I was at several protests in NYC over this mess, and my brother is over there, against our famly's wishes), but I do feel trhat it is nice to hear of the few positives that come out of this uglyness

[Smasharoo]

but I do feel trhat it is nice to hear of the few positives that come out of this uglynessYeah, it's like hearing the rapist sent the woman flowers the next day.Touching.

[iveyfan30]

Smasharoo said:

but I do feel trhat it is nice to hear of the few positives that come out of this uglynessYeah, it's like hearing the rapist sent the woman flowers the next day.Touching.

actually its nothing like that...but good try lol

[TheIceman05]

Smasharoo said:

but I do feel trhat it is nice to hear of the few positives that come out of this uglynessYeah, it's like hearing the rapist sent the woman flowers the next day.Touching.

Actually, it's like hearing a soldier did a wonderful thing. If you can't see the difference between being a soldier (autonomy level of zero) and a rapist, then there's something wrong. But I have a feeling you just made a terrible analogy and are willing to admit your mistake.Right?Ice

[Smasharoo]

actually its nothing like that...but good try lolNo, it's pretty much exactly like that.IF you can't see why, that's proabbly not something I can help you with.

[TheIceman05]

Smasharoo said:

actually its nothing like that...but good try lolNo, it's pretty much exactly like that.IF you can't see why, that's proabbly not something I can help you with.

See my post. You're way wrong this time. Ice

[Smasharoo]

If you can't see the difference between being a soldier (autonomy level of zero) and a rapist, then there's something wrong. But I have a feeling you just made a terrible analogy and are willing to admit your mistake. Did the soldiers that tourtured people to death have any autonomy?It's a pointless banal piece of propaganda specifically aimed at people willing to overlook atrocites on a mass scale in light of one carefully packaged and managed event.If it warms your heart you're a sucker.The world needs suckers, though, or there might be some accountiblity for nation states acting unilaterally against other nation states that posed them no threat merely because they can.Don't feel badly, though, I imagine most people feel the same as you do. Most people belive Iraq was involved in 911, and that angels follow them around looking out for them too./shrug.

[TheIceman05]

Smasharoo said:

If you can't see the difference between being a soldier (autonomy level of zero) and a rapist, then there's something wrong. But I have a feeling you just made a terrible analogy and are willing to admit your mistake.  Did the soldiers that tourtured people to death have any autonomy?It's a pointless banal piece of propaganda specifically aimed at people willing to overlook atrocites on a mass scale in light of one carefully packaged and managed event.If it warms your heart you're a sucker.The world needs suckers, though, or there might be some accountiblity for nation states acting unilaterally against other nation states that posed them no threat merely because they can.Don't feel badly, though, I imagine most people feel the same as you do.  Most people belive Iraq was involved in 911, and that angels follow them around looking out for them too./shrug.

Your argument is not only ludicrous, it borders on irresponsible. I'm absolutely not backing off my claim that the analogy you posted was about as silly and misguided as they come. But the implication that I don't believe in personal responsibility- of soldiers, or of the men who tell them what to do- is equally so. Which is why I'd like to see you defend your analogy. Just defend it. Tell me I'm wrong- and why- instead of insulting me by calling me naive. I'm far from it.While I believe men who perform atrocities are responsible for their actions, I'm not blind enough to see the mitigating circumstances. There's no excuse for being too weak to resist authority when the outcome of acquiesence is so morally reprehensible. But to call the torture of Iraqis by American Soldiesr- torture ordered to be carried out by men who'd likely been brainwashed by the very men commanding them- tantamount to rape is at best ignorant, and at worst a malicious misconstruction of the truth. Yeah, I think almost everything about a war justified by lies and ignorance is atrocious; but your ignorance is almost as atrocious.Iceman

[KidKanuck]

Smasharoo said:

If you can't see the difference between being a soldier (autonomy level of zero) and a rapist, then there's something wrong. But I have a feeling you just made a terrible analogy and are willing to admit your mistake.  Did the soldiers that tourtured people to death have any autonomy?It's a pointless banal piece of propaganda specifically aimed at people willing to overlook atrocites on a mass scale in light of one carefully packaged and managed event.If it warms your heart you're a sucker.The world needs suckers, though, or there might be some accountiblity for nation states acting unilaterally against other nation states that posed them no threat merely because they can.Don't feel badly, though, I imagine most people feel the same as you do.  Most people belive Iraq was involved in 911, and that angels follow them around looking out for them too./shrug.

Smasharoo said:

but I do feel trhat it is nice to hear of the few positives that come out of this uglynessYeah, it's like hearing the rapist sent the woman flowers the next day.Touching.

I'm pretty sure Capt. Scott Southworth's wasn't the person responsible for making the decision to invade Iraq....Last I checked that was G.W.I think it is absolutely fair to give credit and respect where it is due...and it is certainly due here....and only in this isolated case assuming it is not propaganda(which of course is about 50/50)I think the notion that this does not make up for the many many innocent men, women and children who have been killed is absolutely true, but doesn't make the act less valuable.Last I looked G.W. has been elected for another term...that suggests to me that the majority of the american public fully support the invasion of Iraq....does that mean because of your association to the USA, you are by default in support of killing those innocent people...of course not....does that mean your single voice against the senseless killing is less valuable...of course not.the ones to blame are those who have been in support of G.W. and his choice to continue his quest to spread democratic reform throughout the Middle East......wait as sec...if you picture G.W. in chainmail and white smock riding a white horse....now read the bold just above....doesn't that seem eerily like the Crusades?...I think your analogy to Rapist would be right on had it been G.W. adopting the child.KK

[NormanHaupt]

Well, I'm not going to sound off nearly as leftist as smash, but I do agree with him. It's just the propaganda machine carrying republican support. Sure, what the soldier did is a good thing, I don't think Smash is arguing that. But its like those people who stick those yellow ribbons and flags on the back of their SUV's as they stand at a gas station pumping $35 worth of gas into their tank daily.You can't lose sight that Iraq had 0 WMD, nothing to do with Osama bin Laden, and, this time, wasn't even threatening a neighboring country. Sure he was a bad guy, but nothing justifies lies on this mass scale.Anyway, I'm just throwing a brother some support. It's wrong to forget just because someone sends your email some chainspam.

[Smasharoo]

While I believe men who perform atrocities are responsible for their actions, I'm not blind enough to see the mitigating circumstances. There's no excuse for being too weak to resist authority when the outcome of acquiesence is so morally reprehensible. But to call the torture of Iraqis by American Soldiesr- torture ordered to be carried out by men who'd likely been brainwashed by the very men commanding them- tantamount to rape is at best ignorant, and at worst a malicious misconstruction of the truth. Your'e so right. Torturing someone to death is much worse than rape. It was a bad anaolgy in that it wasn't appropriately severe enough.It's like the mass murder sending his victim's fammilies flowers the next day.That's better.

[epistemic]

I don't think this is propaganda. It's the rarity of the events, specifically "humanitarian parole."I can appreciate certain damning comments in a wider political context, but to tie them to these circumstances and to demonize or to call it out as propaganda is misapplied.I didn't vote for W. though for the obvious reasons, please see the link:http://media.ebaumsw...sovereignty.movOut

[Absolute]

Smash is dead on here.Most Americans seem swindled by our administration's "look here, not over here" magic trick.Just because someone dug up one "touching" story about the war in Iraq doesn't make up for this.. (and these are only the tip of the iceberg)http://www.cnn.com/2...tors/index.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.c...ast/21iraq.htmlhttp://www.iraqbodycount.net/database/and theres THOUSANDS of these on the internet, but ill show you just one.http://airamericarad...52147046_10.jpg(and before you presume, this isn't a result of insurgency among the civilians, this is a result of Americans beating the shit out of everything in Fallujah.)so yeah, touching story, sleep tight.