20 replies to this topic

[Actuary]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Actuary is Button with A:diamond:, 6:diamond:. UTG calls, 2 folds, Actuary calls, SB completes, BB checks.Flop: (5 SB) T:diamond:, 6:club:, 2:club: (5 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets....this was a rare multi-way pot, table playing pretty tightvery standard I hope..

[RiverSense]

That's how I would play it. By raising you will probably get the blinds to fold a two, a six and if the table was pretty tight like you said they may let go a 10 with a rag kicker. Plus you might get a free river card if you want to take it.What would you do if a diamond fell and it was checked to you? Bet or take a free card?

[TJ_Eckleburg]

Pot's kinda small... and the call in between makes me think this'll be tough. I'd like it better if you were raising the bettor heads up.

[pokerplayer24]

Actuary said:

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Actuary is Button with A:diamond:, 6:diamond:. UTG calls, 2 folds, Actuary calls, SB completes, BB checks.Flop: (5 SB) T:diamond:, 6:club:, 2:club: (5 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets....this was a rare multi-way pot, table playing pretty tightvery standard I hope..

Just dont see what raising does for us here. If it gets checked to us on a blank turn whats our action?

[screech]

I call.The only case I can see for raising is to deter UTG from leading the turn so you can take a free card. The only problem with that is that if the turn gets checked to you, you have to bet.Another problem is that UTG may simply call your raise and lead or c/r the turn. Either way, raising sucks.

[Actuary]

why do I have to bet if checked to?It woulds depend on the number of opponents for meI'm usually taking a free card, if offeredsurely, if the pot were bigger, Raising is automatic?maybe that's where I got this idea of it being standard.damn..i feel like such a fool posting this as a standard hand.nonethelss, I still think a raise is good... maybe I'm tired.Who raises AK here?

[screech]

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why do I have to bet if checked to?

Because betting and taking a free sd is a lot better than checking and calling a bet. Checking this turn when you are ahead is disasterous.Raising the flop with hands that may be ahead but are very vulnerable and have 5.5 outs if behind is a very delicate situation. Just forgo all the ambiguity and call and re-evaluate on the turn.

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surely, if the pot were bigger, Raising is automatic?

Only if you think raising increases your equity enough in relation to the pot size that raising actually saves you 1sb.

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maybe that's where I got this idea of it being standard.

Maybe. You SSHE slut.

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damn..i feel like such a fool posting this as a standard hand.

And a fish feels wet. Who cares? The reason you posted the hand is because you must have felt something weird, even if it was standard for you. Every hand I post feels standard to me, but I post them because it also seems like there could be something wrong with it, and if there is, I want help.

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nonethelss, I still think a raise is good... maybe I'm tired.

And I'm drunk. Go to bed.

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Who raises AK here?

I would rather raise with A 6 .

[Actuary]

I'm s orarely ahead here, that if UTG just calls my raise and checks to me on the turn, I'm only betting if it's HU.If it were a LP flop bet, it would be different, I'd expect to be ahead sometimes.I'm raising to fold other hands that may outdraw me and in large part to get a free card.Getting c/r on turn would really suck.Screech, we can take a free card sometimes, you know.I understand we have a hand with marginal SD value, so I'd way the likleyhood of an EP flop bettor folding to my Turn bet, against the chance he c/r's or leads the river anyway.if IU make it to showdown, it does look interesting to the folders..who think "You bought me off the pot with that?"

[screech]

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I'm raising to fold other hands that may outdraw me and in large part to get a free card.

1) what difference does it make if they outdraw you when you're behind2) do you plan on calling river bet UI? If so, why not bet the turn? If not, how often do you raise the turn card with a 5.5 outter so that you may get to see the river cheaply?With these many players in teh pot, I'm not sure you get your free card all that often here. Sometimes you'll get 3-bet, and end up costing yourself an sb. Other times the turn will get donked, and you'll have the same result.If I did raise the flop, I bet the turn because I want tofold other hands that may outdraw me

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Getting c/r on turn would really suck.

I agree. Getting 3-bet on the flop or donked on the turn would suck too.Folding overcards on the turn when you have the best hand would be great.

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Screech, we can trake a free card sometimes, you know.

I know.But it's never a free card. It's a 0.5sb cheaper card, and it always costs us a little equity when we're ahead. And if we call a river bet UI it usually costs the same amount. And if we fold to a river bet UI it may cost the whole pot.If we raise the flop, betting the turn makes everything so much easier.

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I understand we have a hand with marginal SD value, so I'd way the likleyhood of an EP flop bettor folding to my Turn bet, against the chance he c/r's or leads the river anyway

Weigh the chance of this happening with the chance of you getting 3-bet on the flop or donked on the turn.

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if IU make it to showdown, it does look interesting to the folders..who think "You bought me off the pot with that?"

You construct sentences worse than I do. :-) I have no idea what this means.

[Actuary]

SCreech:we fundementally disagree here.In case I'm ahead now, I'd like hands to fold that may outdraw me... true, it's not often I catch up and then get outdrawn..or other visa versathis was a tightish game (as noted) and getting a 0.5 card was not that unlikely.. and getting gaybet into was not that horrible..another thing is if the field is thinner, the risk of facing 2 bets on turn (a clear fold w/o a FD) is reduced. HU pots are cheap to play.Screech, at micro, you take free cards more, I do believe that. You are beyond this level..

[Briguy]

The only reason I don't like it is because of the two clubs on the flop. You should bet a non-club turn when checked to, and you'll have no idea if the callers behind you have a T or a club draw after doing so. I guess that's not all bad, though, because you can check through/fold the river if you miss. So I guess I do like it. :)Personally, I suggest hitting the runner-runner flush.

[Rocketwadster]

I agree that this is a raise situation on the flop, OR a fold, depending on the table. You have indicated it is a tight table (don't know if it is tight passive or tight aggressive though...tsk tsk tsk...tight only tells part of the story). 8) I haven't played much 2/4, so I don't know in general how often any two clubs that played would call two bets there... :?

[Actuary]

if Rocketwadster agrees with my play, it's time to re-evaluate!

[Rocketwadster]

Actuary said:

if Rocketwadster agrees with my play, it's time to re-evaluate!

tee hee heeBarring the occasional brain-fart, you KNOW that my advice is 98% sound...lol 8)

[Wingmaster05]

Actuary I'm with you on this one but take a bet/fold UI on turn though...if it's a tight table i think we get 77 88 99 to fold the turn bet.

[Actuary]

results:got it HU, I was 3-bet of flop.Turn came .He Bet, I called.river Blank, I folded.I get 3-bet more at 2/4 and less free cards.I'm ok with the raise... not in love with it... bigger pot, I love it.

[screech]

Actuary said:

results:got it HU, I was 3-bet of flop.Turn came   .He Bet, I called.river Blank,  I folded.I get 3-bet more at 2/4 and less free cards.I'm ok with the raise... not in love with it... bigger pot, I love it.

I'm glad he bet the turn.

[Actuary]

screech said:

I'm glad he bet the turn.

dickps. give me that's it's a clear raise in a bigger pot, at least.

[screech]

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ps. give me that's it's a clear raise in a bigger pot, at least.

Maybe. Definelty more so. Depending on how tight SB and BB are. If they're too tight, and would fold a hand like K9s for one bet, than I don't see the point in raising.As an aside, you said at the beginning of your post that the table was tight. Assuming that BB and SB are tight, what hands are you trying to drive out with your raise exactly?

[Actuary]

screech said:

As an aside, you said at the beginning of your post that the table was tight.  Assuming that BB and SB are tight, what hands are you trying to drive out with your raise exactly?

I'm not sure those players were particularly tight..just that the hands were usually not 5 way to the flop.I'd like gut shots to fold.Tx (I can hope)77-99QJKJespecailly one with bdfd's.is this a trick?