24 replies to this topic

[pokerkid]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is MP3 with J:diamond:, J:club:. UTG raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.Flop: (10.50 SB) 4:heart:, 3:heart:, K:diamond: (3 players)UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.Turn: (8.25 BB) 7:club: (3 players)UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero...?

[ahosang]

I'm no LHE expert, but want to learn this game. I'll be interested what the better players think you should do.With the checks on the flop + the C/r, I think one has a flush draw, hence the turn checks. Maybe one has a weak K?I think you should bet here rather than take the free card.

[nrs02004]

any read on UTG?His flop + preflop play seems pretty standard for KQ (maybe AK) possibly KJ suited if he's rather aggressive, or qq (maybe) jj 1010 99 88 (If he plays it like I would). The turn is strange... but I don't think you can give out a free card here, any ace or heart is bad news, and I really wouldn't like to see a 5 or 6 either. I would tenatively say bet/fold? The bet protects your hand but it's an easy fold if c/r.Did he have 77 and decide to check his set? or some other low pocket pair and shutdown after no1 folded the flop?

[screech]

This could easily be QQ-99.The problem is the other player. You can bet now, and hope to see a free sd, or check, with the intention of calling a river bet UI. I think that's the best option. You may induce a bluff from a weaker hand. I'd be cautious about overcalling though.

[pokerkid]

I'll post replies after more people have a chance to respond, but villian's play made more sense when I saw his hand.

[pokerkid]

Actuary, it's ur last chance to take a shot at this one before i post results.

[Actuary]

pokerkid said:

Actuary, it's ur last chance to take a shot at this one before i post results.

hold on

[Actuary]

oh, yeah, I skipped this one.it's a clear b/f on flop.If you had J , it would be closer*** read replies ****uh.... hmmm..... I'm learning nothing if this aint a fold.Since I win a lot now, I'll assume I am learning and this is a fold on the flop

[dms26]

Fold to the flop raise, you might be drawing to 1 out.Since you didn't, check the turn. I probably call one bet on a non-heart river. I might fold to an ace on river as well.

[ahosang]

Actuary said:

oh, yeah, I skipped this one.it's a clear b/f on flop.If you had J , it would be closer*** read replies ****uh.... hmmm..... I'm learning nothing if this aint a fold.Since I win a lot now, I'll assume I am learning and this is a fold on the flop

What does he do on the turn?And why did you think the leader is checking? Sorry for the dumb questions. My copy of SSHE isn't here yet....

[Actuary]

ahosang said:

What does he do on the turn?And why did you think the leader is checking? Sorry for the dumb questions. My copy of SSHE isn't here yet....

I'd go with Screech on the turn, he's smart.But, again, I never make it to the turn and I'm not sure Screech does

[screech]

Actuary said:

ahosang said:

What does he do on the turn?And why did you think the leader is checking? Sorry for the dumb questions. My copy of SSHE isn't here yet....

I'd go with Screech on the turn, he's smart.But, again, I never make it to the turn and I'm not sure Screech does

Actuary,the reason that we call the flop is 2 fold:1) we may have the best hand2) we may outdrawGranted, the chance of 1) is somewhat low. I'd guess around 15 - 20%. Also, we aren't getting quite the odds to draw ot 2). With the flush draw out, and a player calling 2 cold behind us, we aren't really getting quite the odds we need on the flop. I'd say we need about 25:1 to call here profitably.Anyway, these 2 things together makes the flop a call IMO. I've also changed my POV about the turn. I think this is an easy bet.

[Actuary]

NO NO NO NO NOwhy is this a fold sometimes and not others!damnit..we are so confusing!we have no draw! we have 2 outs!if there was no turn posted, this is an easy b/f.gimminy Christmas, quit trying to win every pot.

[screech]

Actuary,Look at the size of the pot, think of villians range. It's too early to give up just yet.

[screech]

Actuary,Look at the size of the pot, think of villians range. It's too early to give up just yet.

[Actuary]

screech said:

Actuary,Look at the size of the pot, think of villians range.  It's too early to give up just yet.

look at the K.look at the fact he raised UTGlook at the fact we don't make much more when we are aheadlook at his c/r, a move to fold weak draws or stronbg draws (incorrectly)when do you give up?HU, I would play on.

[screech]

Maybe it's the 6-max in me that's telling me not to give up.AK - 12 combosKQ - 12 combosAA-QQ/Kx - 6 combos (discounted for unlikelyhood)JJ - We'll ignoreTT-88 - 6 combos (discounted because these hands won't play this way, even though they should).Accoriding to this model, we are ahead of the pf raiser here approximately 1/6 of the time. I actually think it's a bit more htan that, because I feel I discounted the TT-88 combos a bit too much.If we are ahead of UTG, we will almost always beat him by showdown. The problem is that UTG+1 could have a wide range of hands. Some of which have us beat, others which are drawing slim, and others that have a strong draw against us. So our overall equity is not that great.If UTG will check this turn every time he has a weaker hand, than we should definetly continue. But if he usually follows through with a bet, then calling becomes expensive, because we will now have to fold and it really doesn't matter how often we are ahead, because by folding the turn, we are effectively behind to even his weaker hands.Yeah. You win. Too much has to go right here. HU easy call.If the J was the J , easy call.If we could predict the future, easy call.

[Actuary]

screech said:

Yeah.  You win.  Too much has to go right here.  

just before you edit it!

[ahosang]

<sigh>This is why I don't really want to start playing this dark, shadowy game.You're saying that we should have folded the flop, but if we called(misclick) and since they both checked the turn, we now bet??Or not??

[Actuary]

ahosang said:

<sigh>This is why I don't really want to start playing this dark, shadowy game.You're saying that we should have folded the flop, but if we called(misclick) and since they both checked the turn, we now bet??Or not??

Screech already said YES!it was in the post somewhere before he said I was right!(Screech is awesome poker player..so I can act a fool for this one time!)