25 replies to this topic

[Absolute]

A friend and I are having an argument over a stupid hannd. I know what's right, but I want to put it to a vote to prove it to him and make him realize the err of his ways.Tournament just began, first level. Say the blinds are 25-50 and you have around 10,000 in chips. No limit holdem.8 handed, you are on the button with 5-5UTG+1 limps in but everyone else folds to you (on the button)Call, raise (if so how much), or fold?

[looshle]

Alot depends on the size of the stacks and blinds but generally i would raise it here. Especially since you are on the button, you will have a good chance of seeing the turn card for free if you wanted to.

[Absolute]

i edited.

[EJ333]

Need more info, but generally:I would raise (3x or 4x) and at least try and get this hand heads up. You might take it down right there. With more limpers, its a call and hope for improvement.

[MrConceit]

Absolute said:

A friend and I are having an argument over a stupid hannd. I know what's right, but I want to put it to a vote to prove it to him and make him realize the err of his ways.Tournament just began, first level. Say the blinds are 25-50 and you have around 10,000 in chips. No limit holdem.8 handed, you are on the button with 5-5UTG+1 limps in but everyone else folds to you (on the button)Call, raise (if so how much), or fold?

The blinds are so small, it doesn't seem totally worth it to me to raise. And you have _zero_ info about whether the blinds are loose/tight because the tourney just began. UTG+1 is pretty early, so he could very easily have a solid hand if he's not a fool. I'd just call and see if I flopped a set since the blinds are so small compared to stack sizes. If they were larger I'd raise.Obviously you don't have the pot odds to try to flop a set off pure pot odds, but with implied I think it's fine. I'm not hugely against raising here, but with no knowledge of whether the blinds are loose/tight and the fact that the limper is so early, I'd see a flop cheap.[edit]I'm not even against folding since only 1 limper and 55 is pretty darned weak for a PP. Until I know tables I somewhat respect early limpers and tread cautiously with low PPs.

[KDawgCometh]

since we're in this first level here and I'm on the button I'd limp. There is no need with fives at this stage to commit a lot of chips to the pot. Also if you hit a set here you've put in only t50 to win a lot. There's just no need in the first level to lose a good portion of your stack on just fives. Lets see a flop baby

[Smasharoo]

Raise the pot + 1big blind.Fold to a reraise, bet the pot on any rag flop fold to any signfigant action.Limping here is pointless. You need an almost perfect flop to get any value from a set at all. You both have to hit it.

[NormanHaupt]

I'd still limp- he could end up completely dominated on the flop 1-7.5 times.

[MrConceit]

Smasharoo said:

Raise the pot + 1big blind.Fold to a reraise, bet the pot on any rag flop fold to any signfigant action.Limping here is pointless. You need an almost perfect flop to get any value from a set at all. You both have to hit it.

If limping here is pointless I prefer to fold. You have zero info about either the blinds or the UTG+1 who limped. 5s are yucky. If either blind calls the raise it's even more disgusting unless you flop a set.Oh, one other point, it isn't just the two of you in the hand if you limp. It's surely the BB and likely the SB. So if they get a piece when you flop a set you could easily get some action.

[Leedspokerguru]

Like MrConceit said. Too early on in the tourney. I don't see the value in playing this hand. I'd fold it. That 150 would come in handy for later on. I don't play any poor hand early on. I play tight as a nut then losen up. My answer - Fold

[JFarrell20]

i could see doing each of these three options in this spot, dependant on how the table is playing. Seems pretty tight, so I'd try to see a cheap flop in a probably 4-way pot and look for a set.

[bluff2much]

I don't see how u can fold pocket 5's on the button. I would take into consideration how many people try and limp in. a lot of people play tight at the beginning, but on the other hand they also like to see flops cause the blinds are small. If its less than one caller or b4 me i raise. If 2 or more callers I limp. Folding is not an option....unless the pot is raised, imho.

[KramitDaToad]

Don't be a pussy.Push all-in and claim that massive 1.25% return :shock:

[gregdon8]

In this situation I like limping. With 10,000 in chips and the blinds so small I would limp inticing the small and big blind to play as well. thereby when and if you do flop a set the implied odds are huge. With 10,000 in chips where is the value really in re-raising, picking up the 125 already in the flop? This is a classic early tournament hand in which you can enter for cheap and if you hit you can get payed off. To me it is a risk/reward ratio, and early on in the tourney, with the pot being insignificant to the size of your stack preflop, I like to risk little with the possibility of a huge reward. If that limper had a big hand like AA, and isn't a very strong player you could get most if not all of his chips, when you hit your set.

[Metro]

I would limp. You'll be at least 3, if not 4 way here. You're in position after the flop, have the chance to catch a set, and might get a little information about how these guys are playing. If UTG+1 is up against the BB, he could easily just buy the pot on the flop if a face card comes out and you gain no information from anyone. 4 people to the flop, Doubtful he'll push hard unless he makes something. Because I'm gaining a little knowledge of the table, the blinds are small, and I'm in position, I limp. If one of the blinds raise, I run for the hills. That early in the tournament, UTG+1 might be trying to limp-raise with premium hand. Considering most tournaments I play, people come out firing the first few hands, I could easily see this being the case. Otherwise, he might be on middle PP, JJ for example. Just not enough information here for me to raise, but possibility for too much action for me to fold. I limp

[Alcatraz]

I vote fold. Raising risks chips for what is a small return relative to later rounds. That is to say, small gains in chip stack early on are relatively insignificant in the long run. A raise here really hopes to win the blinds. You're not likely to get much more than that if you win, and if the limper calls you, you're probably in bad shape.Fold here and wait until later in the tourney to make a play with presto.

[dms26]

I'd limp or make a raise to 150. It's a very small portion of your 10K, if you miss no big deal. Plus your in position, if everyone checks to you and the flop is rags bet half the pot. If there are alot of overcards take a free one.

[Smasharoo]

Can someone explain to me how betting 50 chips to win ten is somehow magically worse than betting 500 to win 100. I'm not sure I follw that at all.

[gregdon8]

"dms26" said:

I'd limp or make a raise to 150. It's a very small portion of your 10K, if you miss no big deal. Plus your in position, if everyone checks to you and the flop is rags bet half the pot. If there are alot of overcards take a free one.

I am sorry but I see absolutely no value in raising this pot. By doing so you will most likely get more than one caller out of the blinds and probably the limper (if he does not reraise). Since this is a flop you will hit a lot less than you will miss, see it cheap with multiple players. That way when you do hit your set, someone will proabably at least have top pair giving you some action. If you miss, then you only lose 50 of 10,000. What are you hoping to gain by raising?, picking up the 125 in the pot? If you are called you will almost always have overcards on the flop and will have to fold with any action at you.

[KDawgCometh]

Alcatraz said:

I vote fold. Raising risks chips for what is a small return relative to later rounds. That is to say, small gains in chip stack early on are relatively insignificant in the long run. A raise here really hopes to win the blinds. You're not likely to get much more than that if you win, and if the limper calls you, you're probably in bad shape.Fold here and wait until later in the tourney to make a play with presto.

this is a perfect place to play with 55. By limping you are puting in 50 to win up to 10,000, pretty nice implied odds eh. Since this is a multiway your implied odds imcrease and you are barely risking anything to win a lot. You have position to boot. The risk/reward ratio ias just too good to pass up here. Making a move later in the tournament might mean risking your stack on just the fives