screech 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Villian is 48/4/0.66Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is BB with J:club:, 2:spade:. 1 fold, Hero checks.Flop: (2.40 SB) T:diamond:, T:spade:, 2:diamond: (2 players)Hero bets, MP calls.Turn: (2.20 BB) 6:heart: (2 players)Hero bets, MP calls.River: (4.20 BB) 3:spade: (2 players)River action? Link to post Share on other sites
quadaces 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I think you have to just try to see a showdown. He could be slowplaying a 10 and waiting to check raise on the river since you bet out each time. He could also have some other small pair like 77 or 55. All you can really bet is a bluff. Link to post Share on other sites
amarillotg 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 check/fold.if you bet he will only call with some kind of weak hand that has you beat (6x, 3x or any small pp) or will fold his missed fd. Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 I'm surprised by the answers so far. I thought check/fold was one of my worst options.Look at this guys stats, and remember it's 6-max. Link to post Share on other sites
TJ_Eckleburg 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I'm going to make a wild guess...[b/f ~= c/c] >> b/c > c/fI don't really wanna risk more than 1 bet on the river with this goofy a hand... and for his passive-ness I don't think he'll be raising with A-high on the end.If we check, I can see him checking better hands through... but if he bets, I think we need to call. Except... he won't bet many rivers with worse than a pair of 2's, right?Okay, screw check/call... I like bet/fold. Link to post Share on other sites
amarillotg 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 i've never played 6 max so maybe i shouldn't comment on 6 max hands. :oops: villain seems the epitomy of loose passive. i can't see any value in anything else besides check/fold or a possible check/call if he's shown tendency to bluff on the end. Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 Villian has weird stats. He is passive, but he's not to be trusted. If I check, I have to call. Since he's passive, since the pot isn't big, and since I have a weak hand, I won't lose any sleep if I bet/fold here. Because he's passive, and because you frequently get called down with A high and K high hands HU on non-threatening boards, I can expect to get called from a few weaker hands. While I may not win over 50% of the time when I bet, it still beats the check/calling because my opponent will call with more hands I beat than he will bet with, and I have to call if he bets anyway.Actually, the more I think of it, the more I don't think c/folding is that bad. It's actually close to c/calling, but I think c/calling has a slightly +ve expectation. IMO, b/f>>>c/c>c/f>>>b/c. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerplayer24 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Vs a passive opponent I think its a bet/fold. Kind of a tough spot since all you have beat is overs and or a flush draw.Check/call is another option just with his stats it doesnt seem like hes going to be bluffing or betting A high to often. Link to post Share on other sites
princeof56k 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I had to delete my previous post because I missed the flush draw.Does this guy fold to a lot of river bets? If so, I say bet (and I might still bet regardless). Someone with trips would have bet by now. And dont let a flush draw who caught a 6 or 3 check behind you for cheap. Link to post Share on other sites
zimmer4141 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I'm also on the bet/fold train. The only thing he's raising with is if he flopped trips and is slowplaying. Bet for value, but don't be surprised to get beat by a 6 or a 3. Link to post Share on other sites
Sysvr4 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I routinely check/call in this spot. No worse hand is calling, but he may bluff with a missed draw. Give him that opportunity.Jeff Link to post Share on other sites
princeof56k 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 No worse hand is callingI wonder how many time A high calls us down? Really depends on the villian I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
MrNiceGuy 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I like bet/fold best by far over check/fold or check/call (which both suck, IMO). There's about 35 ways villain could have an UI flush draw, maybe 50 reasonable ways he could have a T, 30 ways he could have a medium-low pair, 7 ways he could have 22,33,66, and something like 400 ways he could have A-high or K-high.(Exception: if villain is likely to raise with A-high or K-high, then bet/call is best. But I doubt this is likely.) Link to post Share on other sites
princeof56k 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I like bet/fold best by far over check/fold or check/call (which both suck, IMO).While I've been saying bet the river is the best option, I dont think check/call is that bad. I think its kind of close actually (for the reason Sysvr4 mention above). Link to post Share on other sites
MrNiceGuy 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I like bet/fold best by far over check/fold or check/call (which both suck, IMO).While I've been saying bet the river is the best option, I dont think check/call is that bad. I think its kind of close actually (for the reason Sysvr4 mention above).It makes little sense for villain to have called down with anything that we beat other than a worse 2 (which is unlikely for him to limp with), a flush draw, or A-high or K-high. If villain only bets K-high and worse busted flush draws here, that's 28 hands. If he always calls a bet or checks behind with A-high, that's about 200 hands.So if that's the case bet/fold is about 7 times better than check/call. (If he would call down and check behind with any K-high as well, then it's about 20 times better.)If villain raised 20% of the time with A-high, and called the rest of the time, then check/call would be better than bet/fold, but then bet/call would actually be the best line (hell, then we could start talking about 3-betting).The only way check/call is better than betting is if villain would rarely be calling from the flop on with A-high here, or if he's folding A-high UI on the river. But lots of loose-passive players will always call down with A-high on a paired board in a heads up pot.Heck, earlier today I say a guy at 5/10 6-max check/raise a 44KTT board heads up on the river with A-high (after he c/c'd flop and turn against a preflop raiser)..... and he called a 3-bet! Link to post Share on other sites
princeof56k 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Â If villain only bets K-high and worse busted flush draws here, that's 28 hands. Â If he always calls a bet or checks behind with A-high, that's about 200 hands. How are you getting 200? Are you counting all Ax combos? Link to post Share on other sites
MrNiceGuy 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 If villain only bets K-high and worse busted flush draws here' date=' that's 28 hands. If he always calls a bet or checks behind with A-high' date=' that's about 200 hands.[/b'][/quote']How are you getting 200? Are you counting all Ax combos? Whoops, sorry, I overcounted. Should be 120, I think. Still enough to make betting considerably better than c/cing, though, IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
princeof56k 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 If villain only bets K-high and worse busted flush draws here' date=' that's 28 hands. If he always calls a bet or checks behind with A-high' date=' that's about 200 hands.[/b'][/quote']How are you getting 200? Are you counting all Ax combos? Whoops' date=' sorry, I overcounted. Should be 120, I think. Still enough to make betting considerably better than c/cing, though, IMO.[/quote']I still want to know what your counting though. Are you counting stuff like A 4 ? Link to post Share on other sites
MrNiceGuy 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 If villain only bets K-high and worse busted flush draws here' date=' that's 28 hands. [b']If he always calls a bet or checks behind with A-high' date=' that's about 200 hands.[/b']How are you getting 200? Are you counting all Ax combos?Whoops, sorry, I overcounted. Should be 120, I think. Still enough to make betting considerably better than c/cing, though, IMO.I still want to know what your counting though. Are you counting stuff like A 4 ?Yup - any two that make A-high at this point. I don't think I'll be that far off to assume that a 48/4 guy will limp with any A-x. (granted, he might raise with AK or even AQ). Link to post Share on other sites
Briguy 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Bet/fold, but not for value. You have the worst pair possible, but you could fold out a better bad hand (6, 3, mid pockets). Does this villian call with A-high? Maybe it is for value. Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 Bet/fold, but not for value. You have the worst pair possible, but you could fold out a better bad hand (6, 3, mid pockets). Does this villian call with A-high? Maybe it is for value. Yes this guy calls with ace high. I also think he will usually call with K high, and occassionally with Q high on this board.Anyway, I don't think my bet was for value in the normal sense (I don't think I was good >50% fo the time), but I do think a bet/fold maximized my expectation compared to any other hand.Anyway, I bet, villian called. He had AQ. Link to post Share on other sites
Rocketwadster 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 straight draw and flush draw made it on the river. small pocket pair may fold to another bet on the river. Doesn't look like the guy is going to raise you if we bet, so I like bet/fold. 8) Link to post Share on other sites
Briguy 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I'm surprised that you can still find players that don't raise AQ preflop and then don't fold it UI at 5/10 online, especially on a 6-max table. They must not last long at those limits.He trapped you good! Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 He trapped you good! Everyone knows AQ is a drawing hand. Link to post Share on other sites
Sysvr4 0 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 If villain only bets K-high and worse busted flush draws here, that's 28 hands. If he always calls a bet or checks behind with A-high, that's about 200 hands.Two things. 1) You're severely undercounting the suited hands2) He doesn't always call with A high, thus reducing a lot of the value we get by bettingSo if that's the case bet/fold is about 7 times better than check/call.I don't think it's anywhere close to that. Bet/fold might be marginally better against specifically this kind of opponent. But without more hands, I'm defaulting to check/call here so I can show this down.Jeff Link to post Share on other sites
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