what would you do

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

Full Tilt Poker Game #377655189: Table Hargrove (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:35:06 ET - 2006/01/10Seat 1: ronjon101 ($18.20)Seat 2: mowgliz ($64.50)Seat 3: Crazy-N-Lazy ($62.20)Seat 4: ItasteGreat ($86.45)Seat 5: DieHard ($67.20)Seat 6: olcowpie ($3.50)Crazy-N-Lazy posts the small blind of $0.25ItasteGreat posts the big blind of $0.50The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to ItasteGreat [Ks 8d]DieHard foldsolcowpie foldsronjon101 calls $0.50mowgliz calls $0.50Crazy-N-Lazy foldsItasteGreat checks*** FLOP *** [5d 6s 8c]ItasteGreat bets $0.50ronjon101 calls $0.50mowgliz calls $0.50*** TURN *** [5d 6s 8c] [5c]ItasteGreat bets $1.50ronjon101 calls $1.50mowgliz calls $1.50*** RIVER *** [5d 6s 8c 5c] [Ts]ItasteGreat checksronjon101 checksmowgliz bets $7.75ItasteGreat calls $7.75ronjon101 folds*** SHOW DOWN ***mowgliz shows [8h Th] (two pair, Tens and Eights)ItasteGreat shows [Ks 8d] (two pair, Eights and Fives)mowgliz wins the pot ($22.10) with two pair, Tens and EightsItasteGreat: nice catch*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $23.25 | Rake $1.15Board: [5d 6s 8c 5c Ts]Seat 1: ronjon101 folded on the RiverSeat 2: mowgliz (button) showed [8h Th] and won ($22.10) with two pair, Tens and EightsSeat 3: Crazy-N-Lazy (small blind) folded before the FlopSeat 4: ItasteGreat (big blind) showed [Ks 8d] and lost with two pair, Eights and FivesSeat 5: DieHard didn't bet (folded)Seat 6: olcowpie didn't bet (folded)I was more or less fooling around waiting for a tourney to start but i was intrigued by this hand. Crazy-N-Lazy was a pretty good player, tough to classify, was a lil bit LAG. should i have bet stronger on the turn?

[Merby 3]

I would bet more both on the flop and on the turn.On the flop: there is $1.75 in the pot: I like a $1 to $1.50 bet: this flop is a good flop for a BB to bet, but there are a lot of possible draws, and I think you must narrow down the field, weed out some draws.On the turn, I am putting in a 1/2 to 3/4 pot bet (the 5 really doesn't scare me, and I want to give the incorrect price for draws to follow). That means, in your case where you bet $.50 on the flop, you should bet $1.50 to $2.50, but if you had bet $1 on the flop, I would follow this with a $2.50 to $4.00 bet.Then again, I am a little more LAG than average...Cheers,Merby

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

I just realized that i wrote CrazyNlazy was LAG but its actually Mowgliz that is very LAG. I was thinking of a different hand.

[tryptout 0]

There are lots of times we wish we would have invested $ on earlier streets as the aggressor rather paying later on as the caller. I'm not sure if this is one of those times - not without better reads, anyways. I'm not sure what betting $2.50 or $3 on the turn would have accomplished, besides getting you stuck on the hand. $5 + might have got you the pot, but overbetting one pair out of position is not a play I'm crazy about.C/R turn might also be an option, but I wouldn't want to let a card off on a straightening board. Playing it the way you did, how about a blocking bet on the river - say 1/3 pot? I don't see the point of checking/paying off the river, though.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

There are lots of times we wish we would have invested $ on earlier streets as the aggressor rather paying later on as the caller. I'm not sure if this is one of those times - not without better reads, anyways. I'm not sure what betting $2.50 or $3 on the turn would have accomplished, besides getting you stuck on the hand. $5 + might have got you the pot, but overbetting one pair out of position is not a play I'm crazy about.C/R turn might also be an option, but I wouldn't want to let a card off on a straightening board. Playing it the way you did, how about a blocking bet on the river - say 1/3 pot? I don't see the point of checking/paying off the river, though.

The reason i payed him off on the river is because i had seen him do that on 2 other plays. One of them he called all the way down with a gutshot and then threw out a huge bet on the river after the Original bettor checked. I assumed he was doin the same thing.

[Merby 3]

I'm betting around 3/4 of the pot on the turn because I want to induce a mistake by getting a weaker hand to call when he doesn't have the correct odds. If we overbet the pot, we will only get callers/raisers from hands that probably beat us (eg: A8 or a slow-played 79, or a set), although the occasioual 78 or 89 might stick around with top pair and a straight draw.Yes, the worst hand going into the river ends up winning, but so long as we don't give him (or any other reasonable draws) the right price to stick around, we've done all we can. I don't like committing too much money to pots that are unraised pre-flop. Betting too much on the turn does just that (hence I will not bet more than pot on the turn, and as I said, my ideal bet is around 3/4's of the pot here).Cheers,Merby

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

I'm betting around 3/4 of the pot on the turn because I want to induce a mistake by getting a weaker hand to call when he doesn't have the correct odds. If we overbet the pot, we will only get callers/raisers from hands that probably beat us (eg: A8 or a slow-played 79, or a set), although the occasioual 78 or 89 might stick around with top pair and a straight draw.Yes, the worst hand going into the river ends up winning, but so long as we don't give him (or any other reasonable draws) the right price to stick around, we've done all we can. I don't like committing too much money to pots that are unraised pre-flop. Betting too much on the turn does just that (hence I will not bet more than pot on the turn, and as I said, my ideal bet is around 3/4's of the pot here).Cheers,Merby

Good point Merby...thanks for the info

[caribstv 0]

in 4th position you shoudnt be there in the first place......

[Limit Player 0]

in 4th position you shoudnt be there in the first place......

He was the big blind and it unraised preflop.Anyway, you needed to bet stronger on both the turn and river. At least if you are raised after making a good sized bet, you have some information to use in your decision making process. Don't give drawing hands a chance to draw.