34 replies to this topic

[lew189]

I realize this belongs in strategy, but I wanted some quick responses.I read Howard Lederer's interview the other day where he said that the only time he will limp into a pot is if he's in late position and there are multiple limpers in front of him. Other than this, he raises every pot he enters. I plan to try this strategy, but it got me wondering: What do you do with a hand like 66 or 77 in early position? or AJ, even? These are hands that I dump to a raise all the time, but I'd rather not throw them away pre-flop in early position?Any ideas?

[MasterRich]

I'd tried this for awhile and found myself losing early in torneys and having more losing sessions in ring games....the problem is people lose respect for your raise after a while and you have to adjust your game and tighten up once that happens.....what i found out happens is i start winning small pots and building a nice stack, but then i usually pick up a hand like AA, AK, or KK, hands that are hard to get away from and get 3 or 4 calls to a nice size raise and either pull down a nice size pot or more often then not find myself up aginst 2 pair....i think its great to get a rep. at the table and pick up many small pots, but you are out of position usually and better adjust gears once people lose respect for your raise...

[turd ferguson]

I was actually wondering about this too. If it's an even in which you have plenty of room to maneuver I would often raise with a hand like AJ, but I like to limp with the low to mid pocket pairs. Some advice from experienced tournament players would be nice.

[Vatche]

I wipe my ass with AJ in early position...as far as the low-mid pocket pairs in early position go, i try to see a flop as cheap as i can, even 22(if the raiser has a lot of chips)...hit a set and chances are that ur going to win a nice pot...

[turd ferguson]

Vatche said:

I wipe my ass with AJ in early position...as far as the low-mid pocket pairs in early position go, i try to see a flop as cheap as i can, even 22(if the raiser has a lot of chips)...hit a set and chances are that ur going to win a nice pot...

In a normal online tournament where you don't have a lot of chips to work with I agree, but I will play it in a tournament where the stacks are deep.

[Vatche]

turd ferguson said:

Vatche said:

I wipe my ass with AJ in early position...as far as the low-mid pocket pairs in early position go, i try to see a flop as cheap as i can, even 22(if the raiser has a lot of chips)...hit a set and chances are that ur going to win a nice pot...

In a normal online tournament where you don't have a lot of chips to work with I agree, but I will play it in a tournament where the stacks are deep.

very tue...there isnt a whole lot of play in most of the tournies that i play in.

[PMJackson21]

Vatche said:

I wipe my ass with AJ in early position...as far as the low-mid pocket pairs in early position go, i try to see a flop as cheap as i can, even 22(if the raiser has a lot of chips)...hit a set and chances are that ur going to win a nice pot...

AJ in EP is trash in most situations; playable perhaps if your table is very tight, or if you are on the bubble and think you can steal from people trying to hang on to make the money.Low-mid pps are useful in deep stack situations, since your implied odds are so attractive. Very playable early when the blinds are low, but late in a tournament once the blinds get high, I'd be more inclined to muck a low PP utg/in ep then I would to limp.Patrick

[Suited_Up]

PMJackson21 said:

Vatche said:

I wipe my ass with AJ in early position...as far as the low-mid pocket pairs in early position go, i try to see a flop as cheap as i can, even 22(if the raiser has a lot of chips)...hit a set and chances are that ur going to win a nice pot...

AJ in EP is trash in most situations; playable perhaps if your table is very tight, or if you are on the bubble and think you can steal from people trying to hang on to make the money.Low-mid pps are useful in deep stack situations, since your implied odds are so attractive. Very playable early when the blinds are low, but late in a tournament once the blinds get high, I'd be more inclined to muck a low PP utg/in ep then I would to limp.Patrick

Agreed.

[therrinn]

I'm a fan of always coming in for a raise other than in a few very specific situations (usually dictated by the blinds and stack levels). You want other people to be making moves that are - EV for them. If you limp, you're really not inducing other people to make mistakes.

[MikeJohnson724]

I actually use this strategy and it works quite well. I NEVER limp into a pot unless someone has limped in front of me. I also play tight aggressive poker. I don't limp with hands like j10 in early position like some players. I fold most of the times, sometimes I will raise. I will raise with hands like 88's and 77's. The problem many people might have is when they get reraised, they might be calling with marginal hands. If I get reraised on my j/10 I have no problem laying it down.Another good thing about raising is that no one can put you on a hand. If the flop comes down ace high and I lead into the pot, I will take it down 75% of the time no matter what I am holding.Another great thing about this strategy is that if you raise with a marginal hand, such as pocket 8's and get reraised, you can fold. Then if the next hand you get a monster and raise AGAIN, people are going to get tired of your raising and start reraising you. This will pay off emensley when you do have a real solid hand.I use this strategy in sit n gos and tournaments, not cash games.Any opinions on this?

[turd ferguson]

MikeJohnson724 said:

I actually use this strategy and it works quite well. I NEVER limp into a pot unless someone has limped in front of me. I also play tight aggressive poker. I don't limp with hands like j10 in early position like some players. I fold most of the times, sometimes I will raise. I will raise with hands like 88's and 77's. The problem many people might have is when they get reraised, they might be calling with marginal hands. If I get reraised on my j/10 I have no problem laying it down.Another good thing about raising is that no one can put you on a hand. If the flop comes down ace high and I lead into the pot, I will take it down 75% of the time no matter what I am holding.Another great thing about this strategy is that if you raise with a marginal hand, such as pocket 8's and get reraised, you can fold. Then if the next hand you get a monster and raise AGAIN, people are going to get tired of your raising and start reraising you. This will pay off emensley when you do have a real solid hand.I use this strategy in sit n gos and tournaments, not cash games.Any opinions on this?

TP/MM

[MikeJohnson724]

turd ferguson said:

MikeJohnson724 said:

I actually use this strategy and it works quite well. I NEVER limp into a pot unless someone has limped in front of me. I also play tight aggressive poker. I don't limp with hands like j10 in early position like some players. I fold most of the times, sometimes I will raise. I will raise with hands like 88's and 77's. The problem many people might have is when they get reraised, they might be calling with marginal hands. If I get reraised on my j/10 I have no problem laying it down.Another good thing about raising is that no one can put you on a hand. If the flop comes down ace high and I lead into the pot, I will take it down 75% of the time no matter what I am holding.Another great thing about this strategy is that if you raise with a marginal hand, such as pocket 8's and get reraised, you can fold. Then if the next hand you get a monster and raise AGAIN, people are going to get tired of your raising and start reraising you. This will pay off emensley when you do have a real solid hand.I use this strategy in sit n gos and tournaments, not cash games.Any opinions on this?

TP/MM

Turd I respected you, I don't need your smart azz comments, just giving some insight. No need to talk sht

[RhinestoneCowboy]

PMJackson21 said:

Vatche said:

I wipe my ass with AJ in early position...as far as the low-mid pocket pairs in early position go, i try to see a flop as cheap as i can, even 22(if the raiser has a lot of chips)...hit a set and chances are that ur going to win a nice pot...

AJ in EP is trash in most situations; playable perhaps if your table is very tight, or if you are on the bubble and think you can steal from people trying to hang on to make the money.Low-mid pps are useful in deep stack situations, since your implied odds are so attractive. Very playable early when the blinds are low, but late in a tournament once the blinds get high, I'd be more inclined to muck a low PP utg/in ep then I would to limp.Patrick

What the fuck do you know about tournament play???(sw)

[Vatche]

PMJackson21 said:

Vatche said:

I wipe my ass with AJ in early position...as far as the low-mid pocket pairs in early position go, i try to see a flop as cheap as i can, even 22(if the raiser has a lot of chips)...hit a set and chances are that ur going to win a nice pot...

AJ in EP is trash in most situations; playable perhaps if your table is very tight, or if you are on the bubble and think you can steal from people trying to hang on to make the money.Low-mid pps are useful in deep stack situations, since your implied odds are so attractive. Very playable early when the blinds are low, but late in a tournament once the blinds get high, I'd be more inclined to muck a low PP utg/in ep then I would to limp.Patrick

i agree...on the same note, late in a tourny when the blinds and antes are high... i hate limping or calling with any cards, not jus low-mid pocket pairs.(rarely, ill try to trap with a monster knowing no one else will be getting involved and were going to the flop heads up.)

[AceyDeucy]

lew189 said:

I realize this belongs in strategy, but I wanted some quick responses.I read Howard Lederer's interview the other day where he said that the only time he will limp into a pot is if he's in late position and there are multiple limpers in front of him. Other than this, he raises every pot he enters. I plan to try this strategy, but it got me wondering: What do you do with a hand like 66 or 77 in early position? or AJ, even? These are hands that I dump to a raise all the time, but I'd rather not throw them away pre-flop in early position?Any ideas?

Dump 'em. It's part of the point of always coming in with a raise is that it sharpens your hand selection. If you are iffy about playing it with a raise, ditch it. Remember Dannendonk: Laying down the hand is only a small mistake.

[SweetDaddyFreak]

Vatche said:

I wipe my ass with AJ in early position...as far as the low-mid pocket pairs in early position  go, i try to see a flop as cheap as i can, even 22(if the raiser has a lot of chips)...hit a set and chances are that ur going to win a nice pot...

I hate to do this but it must be done...AQ if I had Chili...sorry

[Vatche]

SweetDaddyFreak said:

Vatche said:

I wipe my ass with AJ in early position...as far as the low-mid pocket pairs in early position  go, i try to see a flop as cheap as i can, even 22(if the raiser has a lot of chips)...hit a set and chances are that ur going to win a nice pot...

I hate to do this but it must be done...AQ if I had Chili...sorry

lolll...nice "tilt" reference...don "the matador" everest is my hero.

[turd ferguson]

MikeJohnson724 said:

turd ferguson said:

MikeJohnson724 said:

I actually use this strategy and it works quite well. I NEVER limp into a pot unless someone has limped in front of me. I also play tight aggressive poker. I don't limp with hands like j10 in early position like some players. I fold most of the times, sometimes I will raise. I will raise with hands like 88's and 77's.  The problem many people might have is when they get reraised, they might be calling with marginal hands. If I get reraised on my j/10 I have no problem laying it down.Another good thing about raising is that no one can put you on a hand. If the flop comes down ace high and I lead into the pot, I will take it down 75% of the time no matter what I am holding.Another great thing about this strategy is that if you raise with a marginal hand, such as pocket 8's and get reraised, you can fold. Then if the next hand you get a monster and raise AGAIN, people are going to get tired of your raising and start reraising you. This will pay off emensley when you do have a real solid hand.I use this strategy in sit n gos and tournaments, not cash games.Any opinions on this?

TP/MM

Turd I respected you, I don't need your smart azz comments, just giving some insight. No need to talk sht

Calm down man. I was just messing around. If you've read enough of my posts to "respect" me then you would know not to take me or yourself that seriously. That said, the reason I responded as I did was because you came off as a little bit pompous. Here's a tip: Don't write advice in the first person. It makes you sound arrogant.

[MikeJohnson724]

turd ferguson said:

MikeJohnson724 said:

turd ferguson said:

MikeJohnson724 said:

I actually use this strategy and it works quite well. I NEVER limp into a pot unless someone has limped in front of me. I also play tight aggressive poker. I don't limp with hands like j10 in early position like some players. I fold most of the times, sometimes I will raise. I will raise with hands like 88's and 77's.  The problem many people might have is when they get reraised, they might be calling with marginal hands. If I get reraised on my j/10 I have no problem laying it down.Another good thing about raising is that no one can put you on a hand. If the flop comes down ace high and I lead into the pot, I will take it down 75% of the time no matter what I am holding.Another great thing about this strategy is that if you raise with a marginal hand, such as pocket 8's and get reraised, you can fold. Then if the next hand you get a monster and raise AGAIN, people are going to get tired of your raising and start reraising you. This will pay off emensley when you do have a real solid hand.I use this strategy in sit n gos and tournaments, not cash games.Any opinions on this?

TP/MM

Turd I respected you, I don't need your smart azz comments, just giving some insight. No need to talk sht

Calm down man. I was just messing around. If you've read enough of my posts to "respect" me then you would know not to take me or yourself that seriously. That said, the reason I responded as I did was because you came off as a little bit pompous. Here's a tip: Don't write advice in the first person. It makes you sound arrogant.

Thanks for the info turd. I am still new to this whole forum thing.

[turd ferguson]

MikeJohnson724 said:

Thanks for the info turd. I am still new to this whole forum thing.

It's all good. You seem like a cool guy, and you can formulate a sentence with a reasonable degree of intelligence so you're already a step ahead of most of the people on here. See you around.