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Limping in loose games


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#1 wrto4556

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 09:38 PM

I was reading a theory about loose, no fold'em hold'em that said "you will lose less money limping from early position with more hands." It was saying something along the lines of AQ and even AKo! For all yall low limit players out there, where do you think you should draw the line of limping in early position. In all loose games I limp with AJo, and in the looser ones, I limp with AQ....Limping with AQ I get drawn out on too much. But I think I win enough to show more profit than I would had raised. Everyone calls, the pot gets big, I take one more off...yada yada, two extra small bets. Is AQo a limping hand in early position against alot of loose players? It's not a power-house hand. JTs seems more like a raising hand than AQo...in loose games.Here's an analogy I was pondering on:"Your'e playing against everyone in the world, from an infinite deck. You get delt a K-high straight flush."It only cost a dollar for you to call. Should you call? Your pot odds are 6,000,000,000,000-1! So, your pot odds seem to make a call the correct play, right? wrong. You will almost never win with a K-high straight flush. It's -EV.O.K. So even good hands turn out bad against alot of players. Where do I draw the line, and decide that there is going to be too many people seeing a flop to make a raise the correct decision in early position? A raise will not eliminate enough players; it will only give me, and my opponents, good pot odds to draw to long shots. Limping alows more people to see the flop. It's a lose-lose situation.I feel as though my thread is too vague....That I havn't said enough about the topic at hand. But if anyone could elaborate and help me I'de be much obliged.
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#2 Suited_Up

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 11:18 PM

I tried to read that whole post, but it's late, so I kinda missed a bit of it... but I got the initial question... whether it's crazy or not to limp early with AQ, AK etc. Well, I play mostly .50/1.00 room at PP, and being low on money yesterday... down to like $20... I was limping with AK whenever I got it... which was rare, but I was losing with every decent hand I was getting. AQ and AK didn't win for me the whole session. I don't attribute it to the amount of callers pre-flop though. Because at that limit, raises don't do any good... people will call the dollar if they would call the .50, they really don't care. So basically... I wanted to save the half bet for later, becasue my luck hitting flops has just been so bad lately, i needed to see cheap flops, cause I was running out of money. I ended up busting out anyway, put my last $6 in a sit-n-go... and didn't get a hand worth playing for the whole thing. And for some reason... half the players in that tourney were tight! TIGHT? at PartyPoker? What kind of luck is that? lol! Anyway... I think in low limit ring games... you might as well limp with AJ-AK... cause if you miss the flop, you'll be losing the hand more times than not anyway.
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#3 tekn0wledg

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 05:11 AM

As for playing loose in loose games, I tighten up, I avoid playing AJo from early position and usually fold AQo too, unless I raise with it. I like to play those types of hands in late position and I decrease my starting hands to a tighter group with more big pairs and suited connectors.

#4 holman3rd

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 05:43 AM

His analogy specified an infinite deck, so a royal flush is possible. Anyway, Iíve started limping a little more when playing at a table of loose calling stations. In one recent game, it didnít matter how much I raised, I usually had 3 or 4 callers. After having AKs snapped off by 45o (board read A7255), I decided Iíd better mix up my game a bit.So, I started limping a little more from all positions, but still raised in any position with AA, KK or QQ. I viewed those as value raises more than anything. Note, that I didnít loosen up, just got less aggressive with my preflop betting. In addition, although my preflop betting shifts toward the passive end of the spectrum, my post-flop betting remains aggressive as ever. I typically donít do this when there are a few other decent players in the game. Reason being that I donít want to let them see cheap flops. But, when itís mostly fish, Iíve found that limping a little more is helpful. In addition, if the flop doesnít help me, but appears to help a fish (e.g., he/she bets into it), I can get away safely. As is typical with poker, you have to be able to adjust to the table dynamics.

#5 mk

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 01:49 AM

You should be more inclined to limp if people are loose/passive, i.e. if they play a lot of community pots and then people check the flop down. If people are playing loose/aggressive, you should tighten up considerably and raise with premium hands (the only ones you should be playing). Once you're involved in a hand, your opponents will likely bet for you.Chris Ferguson, on the other hand, argues that it is NEVER correct to limp pre-flop. If you think your hand is worth making an investment in a pot, it obviously has a positive expectation. Thus, you get your coin in the middle.




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