19 replies to this topic

[Devilkin]

Hi gang. First of all, thanks for all of the tips and advice over the last number of days (especially how to play a small pocket pair - works wonders!). Here is the situation I'm having.First, I'm having great success playing S&G on Empire. I've won three of the last four ($10+1) tables Ive sat at, and placed 3rd on the other. So my bankroll is slowly growing. Here I play agressive, and with confidence.The problem is that when I move to, say NL25 tables, I suddenly become hesitant. Suddenly the chips in front of me aren't just chips, they are actual money. Betting $1 on a marginal hand (high pair, middle kicker for example) starts to worry me.Perhaps its because in an S&G, I know exactly how much I lose if I don't finish well, and that makes me comfortable since the loss is controlled. Perhaps is the fear that Ill get trapped in an NL25 pot of having $10 invested in a pot, and not able to let it go. Im doing some good self analysis (an important skill in my opinion), and I'd like to get some input from people about how they deal with fear, apprehension and such at the tables.Dev

[JaysonWeber]

Well first of all, what is your bankroll online? To be playing the 10+1 It'd have to be atleast 200, and thats on the small side. That being said playing a 25 buy-in NL table, the blinds being .10/.25 im guessing? I'd say build your bankroll a bit more until you can play with that correctly, go down in limits, try limit poker, that way you know what you're commiting, you know pot-odds, and you can learn how to count up the pot fast but it does change your style of play a bit so watch it.

[Devilkin]

Yes, my bankroll is just over $200, so I think Im (borderline) in the right game. I am quite comfortable with the concepts of pot odds, implied odds and such.What Im hoping for is a way to get over the mental block of playing with chips (like a S&G) verses NL25 when its all real money . . .Dev

[wrto4556]

Don't play unless you feel comfortable.You will lose money.

[Devilkin]

Agreed . . question is, how do I get 'comfortable'?

[KDawgCometh]

there's no magic formula. just think of them as chips and not money, much easier to play good aggressive poker once you start thinking like that. You very well be stretched too thin with your actual money. You can't play good poker if your always worried about the $$$. You need to evaluate why you are playing and what about poker you like. If its all about the money then you very well might have a problem with playing the game. If tis about the competition, then you really have the right attitude(s the money is secondary). I know that while I think of the money its more about am I playing well, what did I do wrong, what did I do right. I esay take a few days off and do some thinking about why you like playing and why you are playing, then you'll find the answer

[wrto4556]

KDawgCometh said:

there's no magic formula. just think of them as chips and not money, much easier to play good aggressive poker once you start thinking like that.

You have 50 units in front of you...not $50. You beat me to it, Kdawg.Another thing, when you lose units you don't really care....but if you lose $50, you kinda care a little, and it reflects on your play.

[Devilkin]

I think thats it exactly - in an S&G they are just chips to me - so I need to find a way to keep things visualized that everything in front of me are chips.Also, $200 is a fair chunk of change to me, unlike some people that have either large bankrolls, or a much larger disposable income than I do. I could be just trying to hard to protect my investment, since I know that it isn't easy to recreate should I lose it all.Thanks for all your input thus far!Dev

[JFarrell20]

Well first of all your entire strategy should change between a 10 person SNG and a ring game. I play SNG's more aggressively than Ring games. This is because 1st place pays so much more than last place. Ring games you just need to win money. Doesn't matter the rate. You don't have to "win enough to stay ahead of the blinds", etc. The blinds aren't going anywhere. If you are playing at a $25 table I'm assuming it's .25/.50 blinds? Unless you run into a boat agaisnt quads you shouldn't come close to losing your 25. Just play tight/normal until you build up to around $35 then you can loosen up and forget about the money factor. I have some of the same feelings as you, though. In a tourney I already assume I lose $11. In a ring game, you don't know what you lose/win until you get up.Best advice...don't make mistakes...play solid. Build up to around $35, then you will be able to open up and play your A-game worry-free.BTW, I've made $43 after 3 hours of NL ring games with .25/.50 blinds. Same strategy, play tight early, then get up to about $30 and I start to relax and forget about the money.

[wrto4556]

Never deviate from your original strategy.

[JFarrell20]

is that comment directed at me wrto?If so, I don't know why. I'm not saying "deviate from a strategy". I'm saying tourney strategy and ring game strategy is totally different. You have to be much more offensive during tourney play than ring game. You should never feel 'rushed' in a ring game like you do in sng. just wait for a quality hand and play your game.

[bigkg]

Well if 200 dollars is a lot of money to u, then that probably shouldnt be ur bankroll in my opinion. The money in your bankroll shouldnt be all the money u have, money u are willing to bet. Try limit poker and drop to a limit where losing ur money wont hurt as much and as u build ur bankroll go up in limits so u feel comfortable.

[Duff_Man]

I agree with what others have said about looking at it as if they're chips and not money. I was the same way when I first started. I would lose $25 and it would darn near put me on tilt even though $25 by no means breaks me. Now if I lose that much I just shrug it off and try to figure out what caused me to lose it. The worst thing that you can do is play scared(not saying that you were BTW).Duff

[Absolute]

Quote

You have 50 units in front of you...not $50. You beat me to it, Kdawg. Another thing, when you lose units you don't really care....but if you lose $50, you kinda care a little, and it reflects on your play.

lol @ thisunits? thats what play money poker is for.i am ALWAYS aware that poker is a real money game. just because you know whats at stake doesnt mean you cant keep it together.

[Alcatraz]

Fear is an absolute killer. A few weeks ago I had been having a great run. My online 'roll was tripled, I'd won a live tourney, the poker gods were smiling. Then one day I had a disasterous session in the morning, getting aces and kings cracked in large pots, losing straights, etc... For the rest of the day I played scared. I didn't raise to protect my hands, I didn't bet hands that were winners. I lost bets on the hands I won, and failed to protect hands letting people draw out on me. It was a massive tailspin that cost me not only the previous weeks online profits but a little more to boot.Don't play scared. Do something else that day or move to a limit where you're comfortable, or you will do what I did.

[MrConceit]

JFarrell20 said:

is that comment directed at me wrto?If so, I don't know why. I'm not saying "deviate from a strategy". I'm saying tourney strategy and ring game strategy is totally different. You have to be much more offensive during tourney play than ring game. You should never feel 'rushed' in a ring game like you do in sng. just wait for a quality hand and play your game.

What WRTO meant wasn't your comment about tourney vs ring, that's correct. He was pointing out your incorrect thinking of changing your style once you're up 10-15 bucks as compared to your 25 buyin at the table. You should be playing your A game regardless. Getting more aggressive because the table is starting to fear you is one thing, loosening up your requirements because you've won some is another.That's the same type of wrong thinking that people use when they say "It's the casino's money I'm gambling with now, not mine!". The money is yours after you won it. Play the same best strategy up or down.

[jogsxyz]

Devilkin said:

.First, I'm having great success playing S&G on Empire. I've won three of the last four ($10+1) tables Ive sat at, and placed 3rd on the other. So my bankroll is slowly growing. Here I play agressive, and with confidence.The problem is that when I move to, say NL25 tables, I suddenly become hesitant. Suddenly the chips in front of me aren't just chips, they are actual money. Betting $1 on a marginal hand (high pair, middle kicker for example) starts to worry me.Dev

.25/.50 NL with $25 is a bigger game than 20+2 SnG. The money volatility is greater. This would be why you feel uncomfortable.

[BigEasy6]

I had a few great tourneys and some great cash NL games over the last week. I was wondering why suddenly I was getting beaten. After reading your post I realized that I was getting my tourney style mixed in with my ring style. Learning how to separate those two will certainly help one to be profitable in both.Thanks again!

[HtotheNootch]

I think that the best advice is playing with an adequate bankroll. I'll admit I haven't always followed this sage wisdom, but when you have confidence that one call or raise won't damage your bankroll you can play a lot more profitable game - such as raising with strong draws, and depending on the game's texture taking a few more flops with potentially profitable, but by no means monstrous hands.

[Markmadness]

Poker is meant to have fun. If you feel scared don't play that limit. I stopped once for a whole month cause i lost a cash game. Was my first loss ever at the home games. People started getting better and i was fearing some people at the table. They were catching on to my style. I made excuses not to play. However,one day i woke up and felt strong. Been playing hard ever since. Build you bankroll seems like you been doing fine like that. You will know when the time is right to jump ahead.