giving up in a blind battle.

[screech 0]

Just sat down. No reads on BB. Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is SB with 5:spade:, A:diamond:. 2 folds, BB calls.Flop: (4 SB) Q:diamond:, 6:heart:, K:diamond: (2 players)Hero bets, BB calls.Turn: (3 BB) 5:diamond: (2 players)Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.River: (5 BB) J:heart: (2 players)Hero checks, BB bets, Hero folds.Final Pot: 6 BBHow bad is not betting this turn? What about folding the riveR?

[Guest Zach6668]

I hate blind battles. I usually try and showdown, and lose, no matter how strong my hand is.Either way, it all depends on his stats, and his propensity to bluff, semi bluff, etc.Did you ever consider raising the turn here as a semibluff as we've picked up the nut flush draw, i addition to our pair? You also may be able to set up a free showdown here. OOP sucks for that though, but he may check behind on the river if he just calls your c/r on the turn.Zach

[Municipal Hare 0]

You gave up too soon. Bet the turn.

[RISEorFall 0]

You gave up too soon. Bet the turn.

Why? the only hands he probably calls with on the flop that you're beating on the turn is something like J10, J9 or 9-10 that had a straight draw. More than likely he has a pair of Ks with a middling kicker. Check/call with the pair and nut flush draw is fine. By the river I don't see any hand that calls you on the flop that you can now beat, unless he's overplaying A high.

[fckthis 0]

You gave up too soon. Bet the turn.

Why? the only hands he probably calls with on the flop that you're beating on the turn is something like J10, J9 or 9-10 that had a straight draw. More than likely he has a pair of Ks with a middling kicker. Check/call with the pair and nut flush draw is fine. By the river I don't see any hand that calls you on the flop that you can now beat, unless he's overplaying A high.

Because he hit a jin card, which gave him 13 outs. I bet that turn 100% of the time. If he hit a 5of spades, I may give up as well, as the pot is not big enough to fight for.

[RISEorFall 0]

If he has a pair, we're about 30% to win the hand. The pot is only 3 BB on the turn. Getting raised after betting the turn sucks.

[oceansize 0]

I fold preflop also.I know you figured bet it, maybe take the blinds. Short handed probably not, but short handed your gonna run into more blind battles anyway.Bet the flop, maybe steal it then if your opponent has no draw no pair. he calls, but what is he thinking about your hand? Do you have cards that paired the paint? Flush draw? Those actually might be his hands.Check the turn is where if you were gonna do that you may as well have folded preflop. Here you actually have draws to a fourth diamond, a third five or that ace. And if he put you on a flush draw thats a good spot to represent it. But you check giving him the option to bet and re-steal.Folding the river is worse because it leaves you with a ton of unanswered questions as I'm sure you'll be sitting with him for a while at the same table.So, what I think is, if your gonna represent to take it, you can't do so half-heartedly. You could have saved yourself a bet by check folding the flop. And you would have lost no more additional bets if you bet the turn, he raises, you call and fold on the river.You would have just got more information. Because of how the play went down you probably should have paid him off to see his hand on the river.That's what I think anyway.Los

[Ih8mycards 0]

Ok, I'm still a newbe... I would do the same thing you did preflop and on the flop but I agree I would also bet the turn. Especially in blind battles depending on the player you are against I dont always have a problem going to showdown with A high and generally and Ace is good against any random hand. Im not sure about the river but I would also maybe check and call the river???

[screech 0]

I really hate these situations. My normal play is to bet the turn here, but I checked because I never wanted to get raised. Pretty stupid. It seems like a very easy turn bet.

[Sysvr4 0]

It seems like a very easy turn bet.

I was going to say the same thing until I considered the question... what do we do if he raises our turn bet?We're too far behind to call any other pair on the board, and I doubt he's raising a straight draw or flush draw without a pair for the free showdown.I think you have to bet/fold the turn which, while a better line than the one you took, isn't great.Jeff

[Actuary 3]

I think not betting turn HU sux.Yeah, fold river as played.*** read replies ***we bet/call turn.Fold River UI.[editted.]

[Actuary 3]

I think you have to bet/fold the turn which, while a better line than the one you took, isn't great.Jeff

yeah, let's fold the nut flush draw getting 6:1 immediate. :roll:

[Shimmering Wang 1]

That's a pretty easy turn bet, or turn c/r if you think he'll fold to it enough.I favor betting the turn, because getting raised sucks, but not as bad as dogging the hand like thisWang

[jayboogie 0]

Either bet the turn or check/fold the turn. What does check/calling accomplish? I think you gotta bet this turn 100% of the time, you could use a read to probably check/fold the river though based on how the hand played out.In the sb, you also have to play this hand. With only the BB in the hand, A high is too good to pass up playing, there is no way you should ever fold A high in the SB against only the BB.

[Sysvr4 0]

I think you have to bet/fold the turn which, while a better line than the one you took, isn't great.Jeff

yeah, let's fold the nut flush draw getting 6:1 immediate.

Oh yeah?! Er, yeah... oops. Helps to read the board.Ok, if we don't have the Ad, I say bet/fold the turn. As it is, I say I need glasses.Jeff

[Shimmering Wang 1]

Either bet the turn or check/fold the turn.  What does check/calling accomplish?  I think you gotta bet this turn 100% of the time, you could use a read to probably check/fold the river though based on how the hand played out.In the sb, you also have to play this hand.  With only the BB in the hand, A high is too good to pass up playing, there is no way you should ever fold A high in the SB against only the BB.

I'm pretty sure check/folding is disastrously horrible. I don't mean to be a nit, but you do see he's got nearly 13 outs to a great hand, right?Getting an immediate 4-1 on your money, check/calling is a LOT better than folding. It's horrifying that you suggest dumping hereWang

[RISEorFall 0]

So we don't want to fold, but we all agree getting raised sucks. So what's so wrong with check/call the turn? We lose fold equity but after he calls the flop I doubt he's folding the turn.

[Canada 0]

So we don't want to fold, but we all agree getting raised sucks. So what's so wrong with check/call the turn? We lose fold equity but after he calls the flop I doubt he's folding the turn.

Because a lot of players will call the flop with A high there and give up on the turn. More importantly some players will fold the turn with a weak 6 or pocket pair.Your fold equity is high enough

[jayboogie 0]

Either bet the turn or check/fold the turn. What does check/calling accomplish? I think you gotta bet this turn 100% of the time, you could use a read to probably check/fold the river though based on how the hand played out.In the sb, you also have to play this hand. With only the BB in the hand, A high is too good to pass up playing, there is no way you should ever fold A high in the SB against only the BB.

I'm pretty sure check/folding is disastrously horrible. I don't mean to be a nit, but you do see he's got nearly 13 outs to a great hand, right?Getting an immediate 4-1 on your money, check/calling is a LOT better than folding. It's horrifying that you suggest dumping hereWang

I didn't mean that check/fold was actually an option, but my point was that you might as well give up the hand if your not going to bet the turn.

[jayboogie 0]

Either bet the turn or check/fold the turn. What does check/calling accomplish? I think you gotta bet this turn 100% of the time, you could use a read to probably check/fold the river though based on how the hand played out.In the sb, you also have to play this hand. With only the BB in the hand, A high is too good to pass up playing, there is no way you should ever fold A high in the SB against only the BB.

I'm pretty sure check/folding is disastrously horrible. I don't mean to be a nit, but you do see he's got nearly 13 outs to a great hand, right?Getting an immediate 4-1 on your money, check/calling is a LOT better than folding. It's horrifying that you suggest dumping hereWang

I didn't mean that check/fold was actually an option, but my point was that you might as well give up the hand if your not going to bet the turn. Sorry, I should have been more clear when I was writing that.I actually didn't notice the diamonds in the hand initially, but the turn's still a bet though.

[fckthis 0]

So we don't want to fold, but we all agree getting raised sucks. So what's so wrong with check/call the turn? We lose fold equity but after he calls the flop I doubt he's folding the turn.

Because a lot of players will call the flop with A high there and give up on the turn. More importantly some players will fold the turn with a weak 6 or pocket pair.Your fold equity is high enough

Very true.

[RISEorFall 0]

So we don't want to fold, but we all agree getting raised sucks. So what's so wrong with check/call the turn? We lose fold equity but after he calls the flop I doubt he's folding the turn.

Because a lot of players will call the flop with A high there and give up on the turn. More importantly some players will fold the turn with a weak 6 or pocket pair.Your fold equity is high enough

I think our fold equity is being overrated. If he has less than a Q he probably folds the flop and/or preflop, or he's not folding.

[Canada 0]

So we don't want to fold, but we all agree getting raised sucks. So what's so wrong with check/call the turn? We lose fold equity but after he calls the flop I doubt he's folding the turn.

Because a lot of players will call the flop with A high there and give up on the turn. More importantly some players will fold the turn with a weak 6 or pocket pair.Your fold equity is high enough

I think our fold equity is being overrated. If he has less than a Q he probably folds the flop and/or preflop, or he's not folding.

This is 6 max. Not that it should make any difference, but it does. It's full of action junkies who love hitting their cards to overtake you. Quite often the flop is not a big enough 'fix' for them and they peel the turn looking for an excuse to party.Nobody seems to fold the flop, but they all run for cover on the turn. It's like you have to bet twice to be believed.Even at 5/10 & 10/20 I will find at least one player per table that will call every flop with next to nothing, yet give it up on the turn - you just need to keep pounding them. Of course you have to identify them first.Similarly a lot of players will call the flop with 6x 77,88,99 and give up on the turn because you are looking serious and its 2 big bets to get home.This is why aggression is so important when you have a worthy hand, and this hand is very worthy.Sometimes you feel that it can't surely keep working, but you just keep pounding and pounding and they keep calling the flop and folding the turn.

[RISEorFall 0]

Nobody seems to fold the flop, but they all run for cover on the turn. It's like you have to bet twice to be believed.

You have bet twice. PF and on the flop. Go ahead and keep betting into what is probably a better hand on the turn.

[Smasharoo 0]

Bet untill raised, including the river. You have showdown value and fold equity against a wide range ofhands here and his hand range is wide.You have bet twice. PF and on the flop.Go ahead and keep betting into what is probably a better hand on the turn.Which might fold if it's marginally better hand like 22.In six max just keep betting hands like this untill shown agression. If he raises somewhere along the way, and you're not drawing to something, fold.It's not hard.