$50 to $1000 on pstars day 17

[Smasharoo 0]

The GoalTo turn $50 in my first Pokerstars deposit into $1000.The RulesI'll play only Limit games, primarily Holdem, though I might mix in some O8 or Stud etc. later on.I won't move up in limits without at least 300BB for the new limit. I will post hands that I win and lose and explain my thinking behind how I played them.I'm too lazy to spellcheck. Deal with it.It's a rollercoaster, baby.Got another 500 hands in and through the first 450 I was down between 10 and 15 bucks. I thought to myself "Hey, finnaly, a losing session. I'll post all the crazy beats and preach about bankroll management and patience and being able to deal with booking down days. I'll talk about how QQ killed me tonight and how crazy it was when I kept getting nailed on the river by the one guy still in the pot." It was a rough couple of hours. I kept thinking "well, QQ again, maybe I'll finnaly pick up a pot against 42o." but it just didn't happen. Then...then...over the last 50 hands. Well, over the last 50 hands I was reminded why people play poker who lose money at it long term. Favorable short term variance against over agressive competition. Or, as most card playhers call it...the Rush from hell.Some hands. You want the bad beats? You want getting cold decked? I got a little something for ya. Don't worry, though, there's a happy ending....I allways did prefer Brooklyn to Queens....*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [Qd Qc]Briguy93o: folds tripper789: calls $0.25mistrken: calls $0.25thecandle: raises $0.25 to $0.50troy_ct: folds turdpolish: folds HaleOHonu: folds lip92: folds tripper789: calls $0.25mistrken: calls $0.25Notice Mr. Tripper calls the blind before I raise. Just something to think about. Obviously raise QQ pre-flop. Three-bet it, cap it, etc.*** FLOP *** [5h Td 3d]tripper789: checks mistrken: checks thecandle: bets $0.25tripper789: calls $0.25mistrken: folds Flop looks good.*** TURN *** [5h Td 3d] [6c]tripper789: checks thecandle: bets $0.50tripper789: calls $0.50Turn looks good.*** RIVER *** [5h Td 3d 6c] [2c]tripper789: checks thecandle: bets $0.50tripper789: raises $0.50 to $1thecandle: calls $0.50No diamond, what could it be? Some funky two pair maybe? Oh well, clearly have to call.*** SHOW DOWN ***tripper789: shows [4s 6s] (a straight, Deuce to Six)thecandle: mucks hand tripper789 collected $5.10 from potOh, 46 soooooted. Naturally *** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [Qc Qh]troy_ct: calls $0.25turdpolish: raises $0.25 to $0.50HaleOHonu: folds lip92: folds Briguy93o: folds tripper789: folds khuston: folds thecandle: raises $0.25 to $0.75troy_ct: folds turdpolish: raises $0.25 to $1Betting is cappedthecandle: calls $0.25Do three-bet QQ pre-flop. Call a cap too, of course.*** FLOP *** [6c 2c 4d]thecandle: bets $0.25turdpolish: raises $0.25 to $0.50thecandle: calls $0.25This might be a good time to slow down, but it might be AK looking for a free draw too.*** TURN *** [6c 2c 4d] [Th]thecandle: bets $0.50turdpolish: raises $0.50 to $1thecandle: calls $0.50I'm about 60% sure I'm beat by KK or AA here, but that's not enough to fold. JJ can play this way as well.*** RIVER *** [6c 2c 4d Th] [7h]thecandle: checks turdpolish: checksI imagine he was thinking the same thing as I was, and checked behind thinking I might have AA or QQ (although this is an easy value bet for you or me in his position, a set three-bets the turn 90% of the time). *** SHOW DOWN ***thecandle: shows [Qc Qh] (a pair of Queens)turdpolish: shows [Kd Ks] (a pair of Kings)turdpolish collected $5.10 from pot/shrug. What can you do, it's going to happen.*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [Qs Qd]Briguy93o: folds B-F-D: folds tripper789: calls $0.25mistrken: raises $0.25 to $0.50thecandle: raises $0.25 to $0.75troy_ct: folds turdpolish: folds HaleOHonu: folds lip92: folds tripper789: calls $0.50mistrken: calls $0.25Well after the last to escepades with QQ maybe I should slow down pf...nah! Remember the Law of Independent Events, kids. Having QQ cracked 100 times in a row doesn't make it more or less likely to happen the 101st time. Changing your play based on short term results is bad. Bad I tell you.*** FLOP *** [Jc 8c 6d]tripper789: checks mistrken: checks thecandle: bets $0.25tripper789: calls $0.25mistrken: calls $0.25Flop looks good.*** TURN *** [Jc 8c 6d] [9d]tripper789: checks mistrken: checks thecandle: bets $0.50REXDALE joins the table at seat #3 tripper789: calls $0.50mistrken: calls $0.50Turn looks ok. Who the hell knows what tripper has, though. 7T? Sure!*** RIVER *** [Jc 8c 6d 9d] [Th]tripper789: checks mistrken: checks thecandle: bets $0.50tripper789: folds mistrken: raises $0.50 to $1thecandle: calls $0.50Maybe I'm lucky and it's JJ or something!!*** SHOW DOWN ***mistrken: shows [Ac Qh] (a straight, Eight to Queen)thecandle: shows [Qs Qd] (a straight, Eight to Queen)I love splitting pots. At least a I turned a small profit on that one.There are more bad beats, but they're the ussual thing. AK losing to rivered two pairs, sets flopping full houses losing to a river that trips the board and makes someone with TP a better full house, AK vs AQ (three times) etc. All pretty straightforward, "what can you do?" hands with no real visability or chance to fold. Sometimes I was burried the whole way like the QQ vs KK hand and sometimes I was way ahead untill the last card.Anyway, I was down probably $15 at 450 hands and said "well, 500's a round number then I can go post about booking down days and whatnot."Then this happened:These hands all happened within maybe my lest 10 minutes of playing, many of them going on at the same time on multiple tables. It was crazy. I think I picked up like 50BB in about 10 minutes. What's that work out to for an hourly rate?*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [Qh Jc]kumarshah: folds devansgsc: folds troy_ct: calls $0.25Jero: folds Murdogg20: folds ronbo: folds fingers35: folds thecandle: calls $0.15wildcard0877: checksI complete with JQo in the SB. *** FLOP *** [Qd 6d Jh]thecandle: bets $0.25Hey, two pair on the flop, haven't seen that all day.wildcard0877: calls $0.25troy_ct: raises $0.25 to $0.50Looks like a play with the flush draw to me, so I three-bet it.thecandle: raises $0.25 to $0.75wildcard0877: folds troy_ct: raises $0.25 to $1Betting is cappedthecandle: calls $0.25He caps. Hmm. Two pair against a set wold be about right for me today.*** TURN *** [Qd 6d Jh] [Ac]thecandle: checks troy_ct: bets $0.50thecandle: calls $0.50Not a fantastic card for me. A slowplayed AA crosses my mind. As does an overplayed AJd. Both of them are crushing me at the moment, leaving me with 2 outs.*** RIVER *** [Qd 6d Jh Ac] [Qs]thecandle: bets $0.50troy_ct: calls $0.50Two isn't the same as none, though *** SHOW DOWN ***thecandle: shows [Qh Jc] (a full house, Queens full of Jacks)troy_ct: mucks hand thecandle collected $4.75 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $5 | Rake $0.25 Board [Qd 6d Jh Ac Qs]Seat 1: kumarshah folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: devansgsc folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: troy_ct mucked [Jd Ad]Sometimes Holdem's an ok game...*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [Kc Kh]cleptoman: folds dilligaf21: folds Duke323 said, "incredible"jccknepper: raises $0.25 to $0.50Duke323: folds lancecenter: folds thecandle: raises $0.25 to $0.75dragsc: folds Dr.Bob1630: folds lancecenter said, "yeah i t sux huh"jccknepper: calls $0.25KK on the button. Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.*** FLOP *** [Jd 7c Ks]jccknepper: checks thecandle: bets $0.25jccknepper: calls $0.25Flop top set on an uncoordinated board. Does it get any better? It'd be better if I got action on the turn, I guess.*** TURN *** [Jd 7c Ks] [4d]jccknepper: checks thecandle: bets $0.50jccknepper: raises $0.50 to $1thecandle: raises $0.50 to $1.50jccknepper: calls $0.50The only thing I can possibly put him on here is JJ. What I really need now is for the board to pair or something.....*** RIVER *** [Jd 7c Ks 4d] [Kd]lancecenter said, "i lost like a $40 pot on a guy hittin a baby flush on the river"jccknepper: bets $0.50thecandle: raises $0.50 to $1jccknepper: raises $0.50 to $1.50thecandle: raises $0.50 to $2Betting is cappedjccknepper: calls $0.50Is there anything better than getting paid off for 4 bets with the absolute nuts?Well, getting paid off multiway, I guess, but we'll get to that later...*** SHOW DOWN ***thecandle: shows [Kc Kh] (four of a kind, Kings)jccknepper: shows [Ad 2d] (a flush, Ace high)thecandle collected $9.10 from potYeah, not JJ. I give up putting some of these crazies on hands.You try figuring out the turn raises by him. I gave up.Dealt to thecandle [Jd Jh]lancecenter said, "sorry horselover :("Dr.Bob1630: folds cleptoman: folds dilligaf21: folds jccknepper: folds Duke323: raises $0.25 to $0.50lancecenter: folds thecandle: raises $0.25 to $0.75dragsc: calls $0.50Duke323: raises $0.25 to $1Betting is cappedthecandle: calls $0.25dragsc: calls $0.25Three-bet jacks. He caps, I call.*** FLOP *** [6d Td Ad]thecandle: checks dragsc: checks Duke323: bets $0.25thecandle: calls $0.25dragsc: foldsNot exactly the flop I'm looking for, but could be worse. I think I have to bet here and I think he has to call. People make mistakes though. Getting KK with no diamond to lay down 1 time in 4 is fantastic here. *** TURN *** [6d Td Ad] [6c]thecandle: checks Duke323: bets $0.50thecandle: calls $0.50Somehow I don't think he's going to buy that I have 6x. Pot's too big to lay this down, I think my diamond outs are good probably 70% of the time. I could, of course being drawing dead to AA, but hell, I'll pay that off on the rare occasions that it's the case.*** RIVER *** [6d Td Ad 6c] [Kd]thecandle: checks Duke323: bets $0.50thecandle: raises $0.50 to $1Duke323: calls $0.50Not what I'd call an easy value raise, but I think it's +EV. *** SHOW DOWN ***thecandle: shows [Jd Jh] (a flush, Ace high)Duke323: shows [Kc As] (two pair, Aces and Kings)thecandle collected $6.25 from potI think this is one of those hands where we both played it right, allthough him capping with AKo is little loose in my opinion. The rest of the hand plays itself on both sides because of the pot size. *** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [Ts Ah]ALE81: folds Jero: folds capnjeff: folds fingers35: folds CalvinF1: folds dboner91: folds chris_k_2767: calls $0.25arrowhead4: calls $0.25zitbit: folds thecandle: checksAT in the BB. Better than nothing. *** FLOP *** [Jd Qh 4h]thecandle: checks chris_k_2767: bets $0.25arrowhead4: calls $0.25thecandle: calls $0.25Kind of a loose call. I have 3 outs to the nut striaght and a backdoor nut flush draw. I'll tend to make a slightly loose call when my draws are all to the nuts. While it's not any more likely that they'll come in, it's a lot easier to get a value raise in when they do hit and at least you know they're clean.*** TURN *** [Jd Qh 4h] [8s]thecandle: checks chris_k_2767: bets $0.50arrowhead4: calls $0.50thecandle: calls $0.50I improve to an OESD and now have ~6.5 fairly clean outs. It's possible someone's hanging in with KT making my 9's ditry, and clearly the flush outs aren't good much of the time. I need probably 6 to 1 pure pot odds to call, beccause it's prety likely that I'm going to get at least two more bets on the river if I hit, though, I think it's pretty clearly right and +EV to call here getting ~5 to 1.*** RIVER *** [Jd Qh 4h 8s] [Ks]thecandle: checks chris_k_2767: bets $0.50arrowhead4: raises $0.50 to $1thecandle: raises $0.50 to $1.50chris_k_2767: folds arrowhead4: calls $0.50*** SHOW DOWN ***thecandle: shows [Ts Ah] (a straight, Ten to Ace)arrowhead4: shows [8d 8h] (three of a kind, Eights)thecandle collected $6.35 from potSlowplayed turned set of 8's. Why oh why in the world would someone not raise the turn on a board that draw heavy with a turned set in a not huge pot? I'd certainly have folded to two cold and he'd have won this pot.Don't be that guy.One more, a hand I like to call the Queens Revenge.... My 4th and last QQ of the session. The coup de grace on the rush of hands which kicked me into the black for the day.*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to thecandle [Qh Qs]dboner91: raises $0.25 to $0.50fingers35 leaves the tablechris_k_2767: raises $0.25 to $0.75arrowhead4: folds zitbit: raises $0.25 to $1Betting is cappedthecandle: calls $1ALE81: folds Jero: folds capnjeff: calls $0.90sanmerah joins the table at seat #1 CalvinF1: calls $0.75dboner91: calls $0.50chris_k_2767: calls $0.25I can't be seeing KK or AA again can I? Twice in one session, nah..can't be.Notice I call four bets cold with QQ. I can't think of a reason not to, as scary as it might seem.*** FLOP *** [Jd 4c 6h]capnjeff: checks CalvinF1: checks dboner91: bets $0.10 and is all-inchris_k_2767: calls $0.10zitbit: raises $0.15 to $0.25thecandle: calls $0.25capnjeff: folds CalvinF1: calls $0.25chris_k_2767: calls $0.15No raise on this flop tends to make me think I might be best here.One guy all in.*** TURN *** [Jd 4c 6h] [Qc]CalvinF1: checks chris_k_2767: checks zitbit: bets $0.50thecandle: raises $0.50 to $1CalvinF1: raises $0.50 to $1.50chris_k_2767: folds zitbit: raises $0.45 to $1.95 and is all-inBetting is cappedthecandle: calls $0.95CalvinF1: calls $0.45Now I'm pretty damn sure I have the best hand.Someone actually folds, shockingly and anoyher guy is all in. *** RIVER *** [Jd 4c 6h Qc] [9d]CalvinF1: checks thecandle: bets $0.50CalvinF1: calls $0.50What no more raises? I ponder how this will be such a great bad beat post if some knucklehead has TK or something then let out my breath as the 27 BB pot is pushed to me.*** SHOW DOWN ***thecandle: shows [Qh Qs] (three of a kind, Queens)CalvinF1: mucks hand thecandle collected $1 from side pot-2 zitbit: mucks hand thecandle collected $6.20 from side pot-1 dboner91: mucks hand zitbit leaves the tablethecandle collected $6.25 from main potchris_k_2767 said, "nh"*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $13.95 Main pot $6.25. Side pot-1 $6.20. Side pot-2 $1. | Rake $0.50 Board [Jd 4c 6h Qc 9d]Seat 2: CalvinF1 (big blind) mucked [4h Qd]Seat 3: dboner91 mucked [3h 3d]Seat 4: chris_k_2767 folded on the TurnSeat 5: arrowhead4 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: zitbit mucked [Ks Kc]Seat 7: thecandle showed [Qh Qs] and won ($13.45) with three of a kind, QueensKK vs QQ twice. Win one, lose one...can't complain :)These big hands came along with me winning a few TPTK pots in a row on two tables and turned my losses into a nice win for the day. $110 to go to .50/$1ResultsStarting Bankroll: $169.48Ending Bankroll: $190.92Playtime: 500 handsNet: $20ish, again.BB/100: Around 8 again.

[monoatomic 0]

Okay, got a few questions for this most recent post.1. You usually say to call the small blind with any two suited cards. Although you didn't post an example this time, I have been trying to do this but it seems to me that about 30% of the time the BB raises it up. What do you do in that situation? Do you call his bet, putting in two bets with two random suited cards or just fold?2. If you didn't go on that "rush" you would have been kinda beat up for the day. I went through that last night, every hand I had was 2nd best. What would have your advice been if you ended up in a losing session this time?3. There are numerous times when you see scary flops yet you keep betting through. What happens when you try and be aggressive and push pots but don't hit the cards you are looking for? For example last night I had JJ in early position acouple of times. I would raise preflop and the board would come down something like A 6 3. I would bet, he would raise. What would your play be in this situation? I called the raise and when the turn didn't hit for me I would try and bet again to show strength but again would get raised basically showing me he had the ace. Second example: You have 99 in the BB it's called around to you. This happened twice actually, once I raised in the BB once I just checked. Both times there were 4 people in the pot. Flop once came down all low cards, something like 2 5 7. I bet the flop and got raised. It's now just heads up. Turn in a K. I bet again, flat call. River is a blank, I bet again he just calls and takes it down with K 8. Bad beat or wrong play? Second time:99 again but the flop this time is 9 10 Q. I flop a set but the cards are somewhat coordinated. I bet this time 3 people are left in the pot. Turn comes a J. What do you do in this situation? I am a loser to any K and any 8 but more worried about the K. Do you bet again hoping someone doesn't have a K or 8? Or do you just check and pretty much give up the pot?Just wanted to pick your brain about these plays because they seem to be what get me the most. Mid-High pair with all low cards, and flopping a set or two pair into a possibly bad board.

[AllenRay4 0]

nice job smash -- prob my favorite day of them all so far because i have a lot of those days where nothing goes right but you showed how quickly it can turn around. also, the point of "dont start getting scared with QQ just cuz it has lost the last 4 times for you" is absolutely great. i think a lot of people subconsciously do it, in fact, i do it all the time. as a matter of fact just after i wrote that i was playin cash games and some guy limped with AA and after the hand said 'i had been getting burned lately with those.' classic. good stuff as always, you da man

[NormanHaupt 0]

As always, very entertaining. I am particularly inspired by the way you stuck with QQ after getting your nose bloodied several times. That kind of composure seems important to becoming a winning player. You're setting a great example

[wrto4556 0]

I'm not smash....but I am bored out of my skull

Okay, got a few questions for this most recent post.1. You usually say to call the small blind with any two suited cards. Although you didn't post an example this time, I have been trying to do this but it seems to me that about 30% of the time the BB raises it up. What do you do in that situation? Do you call his bet, putting in two bets with two random suited cards or just fold?

It matters how much money is in the pot. I think you need 8-1 to call with any two suited. If they are connected, the call is a little easier.

2. If you didn't go on that "rush" you would have been kinda beat up for the day. I went through that last night, every hand I had was 2nd best. What would have your advice been if you ended up in a losing session this time?

Probably the same. Don't play by sessions or results...play hours.

3. There are numerous times when you see scary flops yet you keep betting through. What happens when you try and be aggressive and push pots but don't hit the cards you are looking for? For example last night I had JJ in early position acouple of times. I would raise preflop and the board would come down something like A 6 3. I would bet, he would raise. What would your play be in this situation? I called the raise and when the turn didn't hit for me I would try and bet again to show strength but again would get raised basically showing me he had the ace.

Bet the flop, as you did, and either call he raise planning to check/fold the turn, or fold to his raise. Respect raises, you can't win every pot, so you have to lay down when you are beat. KK and an A flops, I bet out, if raised I muck...especially if there is alot of people in with me...sucks, but you can't continue as that big of a dog.

Second example: You have 99 in the BB it's called around to you. This happened twice actually, once I raised in the BB once I just checked. Both times there were 4 people in the pot. Flop once came down all low cards, something like 2 5 7. I bet the flop and got raised. It's now just heads up. Turn in a K. I bet again, flat call. River is a blank, I bet again he just calls and takes it down with K 8. Bad beat or wrong play?

I three bet that flop, bet the turn, and river. I don't see smash three bet flops much, I wonder why that is.

Second time:99 again but the flop this time is 9 10 Q. I flop a set but the cards are somewhat coordinated. I bet this time 3 people are left in the pot. Turn comes a J. What do you do in this situation? I am a loser to any K and any 8 but more worried about the K. Do you bet again hoping someone doesn't have a K or 8? Or do you just check and pretty much give up the pot?

Once again, it matters how many are in with you. I bet more times than not, and if raised, I call to see the river and pay off the straight. If I fill up, of coarse it's an easy bet or C/R depending on relative position to the bettor.PS> Smash, why do I never see you 3-bet a flop? I see you stop and go more times than not, seems like you're missing a 1/2bb on the flop alot of times.[/i]

[piki 0]

Smash, are you really going to extend the experiment above $1000 and $1/$2 games? It would be very interesting to see how your game changes in higher limits.I have a few comments on 300BB rule. I think it's way too strict for the game you play, winning 10+BB/100. In my opinion this rule is meant for games where opponents can better match your skill and you are happy winning ~2BB/hr in the long run. Also, if ~300BBs is supposed to be an expected maximum downswing, what's the point in diving into lower limits if you lose some part of that 300BB bankroll (knowing skill is not the cause and that you're still beating the game for 10+BB/100 in the long run)? You'd expect to get up before you lose it all, right?You are setting a good example in discipline & money management though. :)Also, in terms of money management, any comments on this:- you play with a bankroll of 300BB (500, 1000) and simply refuse to go down in limits unless you really lose a good portion of it (and I think you should figure you're simply not beating the game)- you play with a smaller bankroll (~100-150BBs) and move down in limits when you lose a smaller portion of it (let's say 1/3, so you have more BBs for the lower limit (assuming the bets are halved) than you started with in higher).I think the last approach is quite effective for building your bankrolls and still very safe (again assuming you're beating the game by a good measure).-pix

[KramitDaToad 0]

Okay, got a few questions for this most recent post.1. You usually say to call the small blind with any two suited cards. Although you didn't post an example this time, I have been trying to do this but it seems to me that about 30% of the time the BB raises it up. What do you do in that situation? Do you call his bet, putting in two bets with two random suited cards or just fold?

It matters how much money is in the pot. I think you need 8-1 to call with any two suited. If they are connected, the call is a little easier.

Actually there are 2 scenarios here, both with the same answer...Your saying that '30% of the time the BB raises it up' - I am assuming that your talking about situations where everyone else has folded. If that is the case, you shouldn't be completing the SB agaisnt just the BB.If you are going to play heads up against the BB raise, don't limp.However, regardless of how many players are in the pot if it is raised back to you, never fold to a single bet raise.Once you have commited to play a hand you need to see the flop.If it's raised and re-raised ie 2 or more bets to call, thats when marginal hands need to start looking at the pot size and number of players (you want both to be big)

[Vensula 0]

I have a few comments on 300BB rule. I think it's way too strict for the game you play, winning 10+BB/100. In my opinion this rule is meant for games where opponents can better match your skill and you are happy winning ~2BB/hr in the long run. Also, if ~300BBs is supposed to be an expected maximum downswing, what's the point in diving into lower limits if you lose some part of that 300BB bankroll (knowing skill is not the cause and that you're still beating the game for 10+BB/100 in the long run)? You'd expect to get up before you lose it all, right?You are setting a good example in discipline & money management though. -pix

you answered your own question... he's doing this so we can see HOW it's done, as well as an insight into his head so we can beat him :-)

[wrto4556 0]

Okay, got a few questions for this most recent post.1. You usually say to call the small blind with any two suited cards. Although you didn't post an example this time, I have been trying to do this but it seems to me that about 30% of the time the BB raises it up. What do you do in that situation? Do you call his bet, putting in two bets with two random suited cards or just fold?

It matters how much money is in the pot. I think you need 8-1 to call with any two suited. If they are connected, the call is a little easier.

Actually there are 2 scenarios here, both with the same answer...Your saying that '30% of the time the BB raises it up' - I am assuming that your talking about situations where everyone else has folded. If that is the case, you shouldn't be completing the SB agaisnt just the BB.If you are going to play heads up against the BB raise, don't limp.However, regardless of how many players are in the pot if it is raised back to you, never fold to a single bet raise.Once you have commited to play a hand you need to see the flop.If it's raised and re-raised ie 2 or more bets to call, thats when marginal hands need to start looking at the pot size and number of players (you want both to be big)

That's incorrect. You are not going to get a good flop enough with any two suited cards enough to make it profitable when you're only getting 5-1. It's a good rule of thumb to say never to abandon a bet, but there are always times. Most of the time when you get one bet in, you have enough odds to draw with your hand, but with 83s, you're not going to get a good enough flop to call a bet. Say the button limps and you complete with T5s, then the big blind raises, you are only getting 5-1 with a garbage hand, out of position. Most of the time you shouldn't fold for a single bet after already putting one bet in, holding garbage without the odds to play is an exception.

[KramitDaToad 0]

That's incorrect. You are not going to get a good flop enough with any two suited cards enough to make it profitable when you're only getting 5-1. It's a good rule of thumb to say never to abandon a bet, but there are always times. Most of the time when you get one bet in, you have enough odds to draw with your hand, but with 83s, you're not going to get a good enough flop to call a bet. Say the button limps and you complete with T5s, then the big blind raises, you are only getting 5-1 with a garbage hand, out of position. Most of the time you shouldn't fold for a single bet after already putting one bet in, holding garbage without the odds to play is an exception.

You never never never fold to a 1 bet raiseLet me say that again: never, never, neverOne more time! never, never, never!!Given that 72o only needs 2.25 to 1 to call against AK suited and any raise is giving you a minimum (heads up) of 3-1 .You will hit the flop with a pair or better 1 in 3 timesGet more players in the pot and your pot odds are through the roof! 5-1 bring it on...True, you are taking long shots here but you can't let opponents push you off your hand for only 1 more bet.You have commited yourself to seeing the flop by limping - unless you get raised 2 bets you stick to your guns.Suited unconnected rags are 30% to win against AK - pot odds required to call 1.7never never neverThe only time its 'technically' an incorrect call is heads up against an over pair, but as you have no proof that you're up against a pair you have to call. The other major point is that you fold once and your going to get pounded by observant opponents anytime you limpnever never never

[wrto4556 0]

In the small blind, you have T 5 .It's folded to you and for some dumb reason you limp instead of raise. Then, the BB raises you. Do you call?

[wrto4556 0]

no, you don't.

[KramitDaToad 0]

In the small blind, you have T 5 .It's folded to you and for some dumb reason you limp instead of raise. Then, the BB raises you. Do you call?

You better!Even against AKs you will win 35% of the time (1-1.85)Your only in trouble if you are dominated or against a pp, but that is true of any non paired hand

[Absolution 0]

Nice plays.That hand where you had AT in the BB I would have raised preflop. That's about it.

[KramitDaToad 0]

no, you don't.

You better ask the big blind his name then and start writing him out a cheque...

[wrto4556 0]

It's simple pot odds. Really. If you call with that garbage every time he raises, you are just spewing chips.

[KramitDaToad 0]

It's simple pot odds. Really. If you call with that garbage every time he raises, you are just spewing chips.

yes, pot odds3-1 to call1.85 to win against AKs or worseCALLLets not even mention table image

[wrto4556 0]

You're out of position, with an inferior hand, getting poor pot odds...what makes you call!?

[KramitDaToad 0]

You're out of position, with an inferior hand, getting poor pot odds...what makes you call!?

What makes you think you are getting poor pot odds?Heads up - position is less of a factor than initiative

[wrto4556 0]

AKs is winning against T5s 66% of the time. Position does matter heads up! If you check, he bets. He's taken control of the pot! You have a garbage hand!

[KramitDaToad 0]

AKs is winning against T5s 66% of the time. Position does matter heads up! If you check, he bets. He's taken control of the pot! You have a garbage hand!

Let me say it again:66% you are losing - yes that is correctto call that bet you need be getting 66:33 or 2-1you are being offered 3-1 CALL CALL CALLPosition does matter yes, but heads up it is less of a factor than initiative. if you hit a pair or draw with your 10-5s and start pounding position is not going to help your opponent in the slightest

[wrto4556 0]

AKs is winning against T5s 66% of the time. Position does matter heads up! If you check, he bets. He's taken control of the pot! You have a garbage hand!

Let me say it again:66% you are losing - yes that is correctto call that bet you need be getting 66:33 or 2-1you are being offered 3-1 CALL CALL CALLPosition does matter yes, but heads up it is less of a factor than initiative. if you hit a pair or draw with your 10-5s and start pounding position is not going to help your opponent in the slightest

What about when the flop comes QJ5?Are you going to call him down?

[wrto4556 0]

You could hit a five and call down and him show a pair of eights...You could hit a ten and lose to KT, QT, JT.Reverse implied odds are bad, you're out of position, and your pot odds are bad! **** AK! What about KT? QT? JJ, QQ, KK, AA, AT, 99, 88, 77, 66, 55???

[wrto4556 0]

You have to understand that calling bets is just pot odds. You are getting 3:1 on the completion, fine. When he raises, you are also getting 3:1 but you are up agianst a better then average hand. This is simple pot odds and the odds tell you that you should fold.

[KramitDaToad 0]

What about when the flop comes QJ5?Are you going to call him down?

Hell no! With that flop I'm going to check raise the BB and make him think about it. You've picked an extreme example there as the 10 gives him the straight, but 9/10 flops where you get a piece of it, you pound...Let me pass this one to Jennifer Harmen who I think is a little better at LH than both of us put together...From Super System 2 in reference to heads up play:When you do hit a piece of the flop, it's usually correct to take the hand all the way to the river depending on the action and the cards that come off on the turn and river.and re calling with 3-1 odds... you will be getting 3-1 on your money to call ... That's simply too good a price to pass up with most any hand you are dealt. Even J-6 ofsuit is worth a call here