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Does Television emplore players to "bluff" more fr


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#1 LONEWOLF

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 10:20 AM

I have noticed that many of the television series show guys making somewhat questionable bluffs at even more questionable times. Now I have taken into consideration the fact that the shows we see on T.V. are often short-handed with outrageous blinds. I have also taken into effect that we are only seeing an edited portion of the game and have no reads on the other players. However, do any of you feel that these players tend to do bluffs specifically to help their side games? Mainly referring to the professional players? I feel that these players have a tendency to bluff regardless of any reads that they may have, just to show everyone watching (and hopefully some of their future side game opponents) that they are a wild and crazy player, as loose as they come. Thus when they play in these high stakes side-games, ppl may give that notion a considerations. Even if the consideration is so miniscule as to change their game ever so marginally. Just wondered what the rest of you thought? L* :D

#2 rhinoceraces

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 10:30 AM

Good question and good topic of discussion. I defenitely think so, the professionals are admitted playing for the camera, so prehaps. But who watching is going to find themselves playing high stakes poker with these guys at the bellagio? I know this new generation of cyber poker players has increased the learning curve but not to the level of Lederer and Brunson. However, I do think that it depends on the player, Phil Laak for example defenitely has tendencies to make plays for the camera that he would normally shy away from. Like you said short handed with blinds does change everyones strategy though.

#3 LONEWOLF

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 10:33 AM

About most of us watching not having the ability to ever sit down in a mixed 1500/3000 limit game with these pros. However, there are many "big whale's" out there that do have this opportunity. And as previously stated, it would be hard to assume anyone so naive as to think these guys play like this constantly, but I think it would put some doubt, maybe enough to warrant a call here or there? Any other thoughts?L* :D
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#4 iveyfan30

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 02:37 PM

in the pros defense we dont get to see every hand they play on tv..we only see the ones the network deem intresting...they show the qurestionable calls and such as a rattings booster...its also important to change your style up as to not get pigeonholed...sometimes we pick a bad time to try to buy a pot, but i dontt hink the tv cameras are a big factor as to when a pro trys to buy a pot

#5 JTPHS

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 03:10 PM

Without a doubt TV has turned the average bad player into an even WORSE player believe or not due to the fact that they think that the big bluff play is the best in poker. Now i don't think that the pros are doing this purposely... like it was said before, tv only shows certain hands and we hardly have any preamble leading up to it and why a certain bad play might be made. Poker is played over a large series of hands... not one. Plays are set up for players to bluff at the wrong time... also, players lose patience and that's also a big part of the game. Just from playing heads up with my roommate, we know each other so well that it's come to the point that the guy with the better cards wins because we know when each other's bluffing and usually who wins is the guy who fold more because the other loses patience and bluffs at the wrong time. With that being said, people watch these plays on tv with no comprehension of why it happened... what they blinds are, what's in the pot and what plays have led up to the questionable play happening. I see people moving all in with AJ or 44 in first position with the blinds at 25 and 50 early in a tourney and not understanding why they keep getting busted early. ("man i'm unlucky!") here's a tip.. we all are! lolAnyway, TV has become huge for this game because it's brought in a huge new breed of bad players who can't get rid of AJ because they saw it on TV!
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#6 hjkl

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 04:46 PM

I dont think pros do it that much for the camara. Maybe a little though. I took what they did shorthanded and tried to do it my self. I have been having great success with their run and gun poker. I think it is just a good strategy to play short handed.

#7 tekn0wledg

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:10 PM

At first thought my answer would have to be yes. Alot of people attach onto this event from TV and thus decided this is how the game is played.... all-in every other hand. It's ridiculous really and removes a certain aspect of skill from some good player's game when they play guys who do this.That said. this is actually good for people who play regularly because we will eventually catch one of these guys in a hand where we have the nuts, or where we know we just have the best hand. This happens probably 3-5x per week in ring games for me, and probably 5-10 times in tournaments. That said I am wrong on occasion, so I really have to have a good feeling about it to make the call. But basically the odds are in our favor when these players come in playing like this. So I say let em raise me all-in for ridiculous reasons, I'll be waiting :D

#8 Wilderness

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 08:05 PM

I definitely think that all the poker being shown, and edited to make it "exciting" to the average viewer, makes the run of the mill low level poker player think that is how they should play the game. But that's fine with me, since all I play is low level games, and someone who acts like that is easy enough to take down day in and day out.I personally don't think that any of the pros really change the way they act or what they do because of tv cameras or to help their side game action. To really change their table image to a very loose, aggressive type (if that's now how they are usually percieved) would take more than just one or two loose plays or bad bluffs on tv. To really accomplish something like that they would have to do it on a number of occasions, essentially screwing up their tournament play for a good length of time, which I just can't see anyone doing intentionally.Now, perhaps every once and a while someone might let the fact that they are on tv influence they way they play, but I don't think its something that most of the pros let get to them very often, especially since the top players are being shown on tv more and more so they are fairly used to it I'm sure. Some Joe Nobody who won a seat online and gets lucky to make it to the later stages of a big tournament, maybe that guy makes moves because of how he wants to be seen on tv, but I don't think that's the norm.
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#9 grdred944

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 05:21 AM

Good topic.I don't believe most pros play their hands based on the camera. Sometimes it may seem this way when it is a pro that enjoys hamming it up for the camera (Phil Laak for example) but I doubt they are actually deciding to play crap because the cameras are on.

#10 Sidrat

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 10:37 AM

Any sport, hobby or club requires new blood. Sure the ones that lose and don't learn will leave eventually leaving only the people who can a) afford to lose but enjoy themselves while doing it and B) those that want to learn and get better and make a small profit.Just because someone's playing poker for fun it doesn't mean people should label them as a fish. I've only been playing a couple of weeks and yes I'm under my starting amount, but the hours I've spent playing and the cost of this enjoyment factor is so one sided it's the cheapest "hobby" I've had in months. That and you can decide to play for ten minutes, ten hands or as was tonight play for four hours without realising the time going by and be up by .49 cents. (I only play the cent games).What I'd like to know is, would my game improve if I moved up to 10/20 cent games?? Or would I just end up losing more faster. How do you know when you're good enough to risk more per betting round?Patience is something I've learnt. To fold the picture cards when there's three small cards, or even two. Someone on the table will usually always have a full house.I play because I enjoy it. Sure I want to win as many pots as I can. And I want to learn as I play. But pro's play daily for larger amounts of money, of course they're going to play differently depending on their opponents as well as their mood at the time.It is good to see poker on tv though. It brings more repute to the game overall. As a postman I've had to walk through dingy and smoke filled (I'm a smoker, but still dark-yellow walls aren't my thing) betting shops, atleast that's what some look like from the outside because of the crazy laws in England. Most I've been in are very well furnished and clean and yes smoking is allowed but good air con will sort that out. Maybe skill based gambling will be more socially acceptable in the future?
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