turn a real scare card?

[Scott3705 0]

.5/1Me:$150, vilain: $130 stacks basically. villain: passive. (just like entire table)UTG min raises to 2. one call from MP.I have KK in CO. I raise to 10. BB calls and UTG calls. Pots 31Flop: 10 5 2 Nice flop for me. Checked to me. I lead for the pot.BB calls UTG folds.Turn:10 BB checks. blah. I don't wanna get check raised here. he might be on a draw... might not believe me and have a pair. or he might have the ten. I weakly check. No good?River:4 BB checks. well he doesn't have a ten.Pots 90. I bet 45

[pokerplayer24 0]

I dont mind the check. This is a card that an aggressive player might use to bluff and I definitely want to show down KK here. I think you also gain some value as low-mid pps and missed draws will often bet this river. In this case they didnt but I think being cautious here is correct.

[Abbaddabba 0]

Me:$150, vilain: $130 stacks basically. villain: passive. (just like entire table)  

Which should mean you wont get check/raised unless he has a ten.In other words, bet the turn.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

I bet the turn unless it's against a real tricky opponent. It's unlikely he has a 10 in his hand, and I'd be more scared of another heart on the turn. Same bet on the river.

[Scott3705 0]

Me:$150, vilain: $130 stacks basically. villain: passive. (just like entire table)  

Which should mean you wont get check/raised unless he has a ten.In other words, bet the turn.

I felt like if he did have a ten, I was going to get check raised. And there was a chance, that he would C/R me w/o the ten. Not a real large one, but it was possible. If I check and call a half pot size or + river bet: I win or lose an extra 45-75 if he bluffs at it.If I bet the turn and he C/Rs, I lose an extra 75-90 if I fold. And I don't know whether or not he's got me beat.If I bet the turn here, i think he fold often knowing he'll have to call another river bet. so I gain value SOME TIMES. but i'm not reaally sure how often. If I check the turn and bet a checked river, I win 45 every time.Hand's a simple situation, but it happens more frequently than most of the hands discussed here so I thought it was valuable to talk about.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Me:$150, vilain: $130 stacks basically. villain: passive. (just like entire table)  

Which should mean you wont get check/raised unless he has a ten.In other words, bet the turn.

I felt like if he did have a ten, I was going to get check raised. And there was a chance, that he would C/R me w/o the ten. Not a real large one, but it was possible. If I check and call a half pot size or + river bet: I win or lose an extra 45-75 if he bluffs at it.If I bet the turn and he C/Rs, I lose an extra 75-90 if I fold. And I don't know whether or not he's got me beat.If I bet the turn here, i think he fold often knowing he'll have to call another river bet. so I gain value SOME TIMES. but i'm not reaally sure how often. If I check the turn and bet a checked river, I win 45 every time.Hand's a simple situation, but it happens more frequently than most of the hands discussed here so I thought it was valuable to talk about.

Actually, after re-reading it, I kinda like the check on the turn. You save money if he caught the 10. You'll likely call down any river bet either way. You can pick off a bluff, since your turn check might make him think you're weak. If you bet the turn and he lays it down, you do lose equity. I like the turn check, a bit.

[macphec 0]

I'm on the fence. It looks like he has a hand like 88 or 99 which if he does you are losing value by checking the turn because when the 10 hits he probably thinks his hand is good. You say it's a passive table but you're worried about the check raise. I think if you bet here and he does raise you can safely fold given this read.The only value I see in checking the turn is that it makes him lead the river where you can call or raise. In this case though given that it's a passive table, villian is not likely to lead any river that doesn't make his hand a winner.The turn check also allows villian to catch up for free.My 2 pennies.I value bet every street

[Scott3705 0]

I'm on the fence.  It looks like he has a hand like 88 or 99 which if he does you are losing value by checking the turn because when the 10 hits he probably thinks his hand is good.  You say it's a passive table but you're worried about the check raise.  I think if you bet here and he does raise you can safely fold given this read.The only value I see in checking the turn is that it makes him lead the river where you can call or raise.  In this case though given that it's a passive table, villian is not likely to lead any river that doesn't make his hand a winner.The turn check also allows villian to catch up for free.My 2 pennies.I value bet every street

As I think more about this hand and this situation in general, I disagree that I lose value to 88 99. If I were to bet this turn, i'm betting the pot. 8899 are looking at this bet, but they will also contemplate that they will likely have to call another bet on the river. That's why I think I get a looser call on the river, while the same bet on the turn, may make them fold. Table is passive. But I'm not going to put the table into a completely black or white area. even when a table/player is for the most part passive, there are still times when he'll shift gears. My problem was that I "sensed" (if you can online) a C/R on the turn. But i wasn't ready to give him credit for the ten. BUT I couldn't very well call a push (which is what I think it would have been) without the ten. I had been playing perceivably LAG because I was getting catching a lot of hands. If i had 88 99 here in his position, I would C/R this turn against me.Yes, you're right, he didn't lead the river, but he called the half pot size bet to keep me honest.

[macphec 0]

I'm on the fence.  It looks like he has a hand like 88 or 99 which if he does you are losing value by checking the turn because when the 10 hits he probably thinks his hand is good.  You say it's a passive table but you're worried about the check raise.  I think if you bet here and he does raise you can safely fold given this read.The only value I see in checking the turn is that it makes him lead the river where you can call or raise.  In this case though given that it's a passive table, villian is not likely to lead any river that doesn't make his hand a winner.The turn check also allows villian to catch up for free.My 2 pennies.I value bet every street

As I think more about this hand and this situation in general, I disagree that I lose value to 88 99. If I were to bet this turn, i'm betting the pot. 8899 are looking at this bet, but they will also contemplate that they will likely have to call another bet on the river. That's why I think I get a looser call on the river, while the same bet on the turn, may make them fold. Table is passive. But I'm not going to put the table into a completely black or white area. even when a table/player is for the most part passive, there are still times when he'll shift gears. My problem was that I "sensed" (if you can online) a C/R on the turn. But i wasn't ready to give him credit for the ten. BUT I couldn't very well call a push (which is what I think it would have been) without the ten. I had been playing perceivably LAG because I was getting catching a lot of hands. If i had 88 99 here in his position, I would C/R this turn against me.Yes, you're right, he didn't lead the river, but he called the half pot size bet to keep me honest.

True, you definitely do not want to be making a decision for all your chips to a turn check raise. I would check raise you w 88 or 99 on the turn as well if you had been playing lag. If you think villian is capable of making a move liek this then a check is not bad.It depends on reads I guess. Players who just call down with 88 on a board like this are my favorite to play. Never have to make any tough decisions.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

Yeah.... I like betting the turn too.We've got the momentum in the hand, and if he's calling with a flush draw or something like 99, it doesn't hurt to represent the 10.If you get check/raised, THEN you have a decision. Against most opponents though, a turn bet is better than a free card. One pair is pretty vulnerable to a lot of free cards by the turn on almost any board.

[benhoug 0]

.5/1Me:$150, vilain: $130 stacks basically.  villain: passive. (just like entire table)UTG min raises to 2.  one call from MP.I have KK in CO.  I raise to 10.  BB calls and UTG calls.  Pots 31Flop:  10 5 2  Nice flop for me.   Checked to me.  I lead for the pot.BB calls UTG folds.Turn:10  BB checks.  blah.  I don't wanna get check raised here.  he might be on a draw... might not believe me and have a pair.  or he might have the ten.  I weakly check.  No good?River:4  BB checks.  well he doesn't have a ten.Pots 90.  I bet 45

I don't like checking behind here. I promise you this player doesn't have a 10 (unless he has two of them). He's out of position, and he called a biggish re-raise. You're either beat already by AA, or you're way ahead, but there's no way this 10 helped his hand, so why give him a feee chance to improve??? What if he has AK or AQ ?

[Scott3705 0]

 I don't like checking behind here.  I promise you this player doesn't have a 10 (unless he has two of them).  He's out of position, and he called a biggish re-raise.  JJ-QQraise some where no?  mid PP calls here and probably folds to another bet on the turn. ten calls here and C/Rs the turn. You're either beat already by AA, or you're way ahead, but there's no way this 10 helped his hand, so why give him a feee chance to improve???  It wasn't about giving him a chance to improve.  it was about stopping a good line that I saw against me. Yes, he was passive, but as i said before, passive people can change gears.What if he has AK or AQ ?Then i gave him a free card and he can't be too confident that I'm going to call a huge bet since I checked the turn.  I call a half pot bet most likely and fold to anything larger.

[Abbaddabba 0]

If you're giving him credit for being a thinking, intelligent player, that'll ensure that you only call legitimate value bets and get bluffed out every time you have the winner.

[Scott3705 0]

If you're giving him credit for being a thinking, intelligent player, that'll ensure that you only call legitimate value bets and get bluffed out every time you have the winner.

I have no idea what that means.

[Scott3705 0]

variation on the same situation:betting fiarly the sameQQ in UTG+1. UTG min raises... I raise to 8. BB and UTG callFlop J J 9checked to me... i bet. BB calls. Utg folds.turn kMy line from here? (not really scared of the king. even though it comples a str8.)Edit: flop is a pot bet. Stacksare fairly deep