10 replies to this topic

[zimmer4141]

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (10 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is MP3 with [Jc], [Qh]. 5 folds.Flop: (5.50 SB) [9h], [Js], [3c] (3 players)Hero bets, Button calls.Standard position raise, is the 3-bet good? No real reads on button.

[Abbaddabba]

I think he does this with a lot of hands that you beat, including draws that may take a free turn (mainly OESD), which makes 3betting alright. But if he caps, do you check/fold the turn unimproved?Also, if he raises a blank turn after calling the 3bet, do you fold?

[mrdannyg]

i figure unless he's a real fish, at 10/20 he has an idea what he's doing. he may not be great, but i think we can give him credit for making a logical play.i think he makes that play with either A9, AJ, QK, perhaps 10Q and most likely a midpocket pair.so i like the 3-bet if you think he'll call you down anyways, but I dislike it since that may be all the information he needs to fold the turn.if he has something like 10-Q or QK, he'll probably call the turn anyways if he thinks his overcards are live (though he has the odds for 10-Q).i think he usually has a mid pocket pair here (say 55-88), and then it is read-dependent on whether he'll call you down even if you 3-bet, or whether he is smart enough to fold when he's behind.cheers,daniel

[screech]

Hey Zim,I prefer the stop n go. This board is draw heavy, and the cards fit a lot of hands he could cold call with.I think you're often looking at a mid-low pp, or some suited connector type hand. You're probably ahead, but if you 3-bet it may shut him down and he will probably fold the turn with a worse hand, and raise it with a better one. Also, if he's on a draw, he may not be much of an underdog on the flop. If you wait until the turn, you get money in as a bigger favorite.

[Abbaddabba]

I dont think that i'd say the board is draw heavy. There's no flush draw, for one.

[Actuary]

Abbaddabba said:

I dont think that i'd say the board is draw heavy.  There's no flush draw, for one.

I concur.

[screech]

Abbaddabba said:

I dont think that i'd say the board is draw heavy.  There's no flush draw, for one.

Thought a spade draw was out. 3-bet away.

[TheIceman05]

I like the 3-bet.If I'm the button in this situation, there's a very good chance I'm raising this flop with any hand I decide to play once it's heads up. A hand like KQs raises this flop every time.Put that third bet inIce

[Abbaddabba]

Since it isn't draw heavy, what would you say about calling the raise and check/calling the turn and then leading the river?If you think that most mid pair type hands fold the turn after being 3bet on the flop, wouldnt that be better, since he'll virtually never fold a pair on the river for one bet?I think it's safe to say that he doesnt often take a free card here when there are no apparent draws (he probably thinks he has more fold equity because of that).Problems:You miss out a half bet against draws.You lose between .5 and 1 big bet more against hands that have you beat.Draws occasionally do take free turns, which suck big time.

[TheIceman05]

Abbaddabba said:

Since it isn't draw heavy, what would you say about calling the raise and check/calling the turn and then leading the river?If you think that most mid pair type hands fold the turn after being 3bet on the flop, wouldnt that be better, since he'll virtually never fold a pair on the river for one bet?I think it's safe to say that he doesnt often take a free card here when there are no apparent draws (he probably thinks he has more fold equity because of that).Problems:You miss out a half bet against draws.You lose between .5 and 1 big bet more against hands that have you beat.Draws occasionally do take free turns, which suck big time.

I don't like it. First off, we don't give him any opportunity to make a mistake. If he's got a hand like TT, maybe he's in calldown mode, so let's let him dump off a few chips to us. It just seems to cheap and easy for him to get to the river if we take your line, doesn't it? He might be a good player, but if he's got a hand like KQ, I'd rather him fold the turn than call, to be honest, with seven clean outs. Let him. Add that reason to the ones you quote, and I think it's a pretty good time to 3-bet, lead. Interesting idea, though. I always like seeing novel approaches to hands, but I can't get behind this one.Cheers, Ice

[avsfan]

If the Button is a strongly agressive player who can laydown hands I would consider calling and letting them bet it for me.just a thought. be nice if they could bet a busted draw as well.