4 replies to this topic

[Dirsan]

Have a question. What are the biggest laydowns you guys have had pre-flop? And what was the situation, why you folded? I had an arguement the other day with a friend about a hand I played. It was in a home game that we play once a week (the friend wasn't there), with the SAME people all the time. it's usually 8 people playing, tourney style. The blinds were 50-100 at the time. I'm late position with QQ. There are two people who have already called. I make my normal raise to 400. The guy on the button re-raises me to 1000. He is one of my good friends and I always seem to have a good read on him. I thought that he no doubt had either KK or AA. Everybody folds to me, I think about it a minute a fold my QQ face up. He fips over the KK and I'm siked a made a good laydown. That is easily the biggest hand I've ever laid down before a flop. I only did it because I know the player who raised quite well. A few days later I tell one of our friends about it and he basically says that was a ridiculous play on my part and I should have raised him all in. Basically ridiculing my play. I would only lay down a hand like that if I was 90% sure I was beat. Any input is appreciated.

[wrto4556]

I definately don't laydown there.I re-raise, or call and if the flop is good for me, I bet huge. I only lay down after He re-re-raises me. In his situation, I re-raise 88, 99, TT, JJ, and AK, too. I may lay-down to a re-raise, like I raise, he re-raises, I re-raise, and he moves all in.....then I might put him on kings or aces...but not before.PS>i've laid down ladies before, but never that easily.

[Jordan]

Once most people get to the flop with QQ w/ no overs, they won't be folding. That's my experience of watching a lot of hands with lo/mid limit players. Ring games or tournies (NL of course).Tourney maybe different, but rarely. I think it is much easier to fold QQ preflop rather than to a board of under cards when you still think your opponent may have "KK or AA" cause when your opponent bets into on a ragged flop, you think AK, or maybe a smaller PP. Very rarely have I seen someone fold QQ when they get to a flop, espicially in ring games and espicially if they had a lot of their stack get in preflop. I can't tell you how many times I've dubbed up when holding AA, KK, or AK (hit a pair) and my opponent has QQ. A) we get to a flop of rags and we again get all the money in.B) we get the money in preflop.C) he folds QQ preflop thinking I have AA or KK - I obviously only know when this happens when he folds face up.D) he folds to an A or K on board, I still profit from the preflop actionE) he can't fold his QQ to an A or K on board cause he just can't fold QQ, or maybe he has the BR for the stake and is willing to be "unlucky" that I have AA or KK (AK) and gamble for his 2 outer.If you are gonna fold QQ, fold preflop, don't waste money trying to get to a flop and hope a K or A doesn't flop. Even if I King flops he may be holding AQ and be able to bluff you out, as many AQers bet on flops that miss them. You need to get the money in preflop or let it go. The way I look at it, if you are positive(which is rare) he has KK or AA, let it go preflop. If you know your player and you think he has AK or JJ or worse, get the money in preflop. If you don't want to gamble with QQ against AK, fold. Don't waste money trying to get a safe flop. I think a lot depends on stack size and whether you are playing a tourney, limit ring game, or Nl ring game. I think what I described in this scenario is how I play it in a ring game. Occasionally I will take a flop w/ QQ, but it also depends on the kind of table you're at, etc. In ring games I have a hard time folding QQ to a flop of rags even if I suspect AA or KK, it just is hard to do.The only reason I would try to take a flop with QQ (knowing my opponent held KK or AA) was if I was hoping to catch my two outer and bust his OP. In this case, in a tourney I most likely would only call his re-raise (unless it was an all in and I was certain I was beat), and fold to his all in on the flop unless I had a set.Ring games, if you have proper BR (espicially in NL), and aren't certain if he has AK or AA or KK get the money in and hope luck prevails. You can't play QQ passive and you can't play it like AA. My personal belief is playing QQ takes a lot of feel, kinda like JJ, but not as difficult as the fish hooks.I mean, it's rare you'll get a lot of action preflop with QQ unless you are playing aggressive opponents, espicially if they are holding AK or AA or KK. In most situations with QQ, you'll put in a raise, maybe one, two, three callers, a flop comes and you play the hand. If an A or K flops and there is a lot of action it's up to you at that point. Not everyone re-raises preflop with AK, someone could have been holding KQ or KJ and smooth called you. You're all in decision with QQ should be made preflop when there is a lot of raises and re-raises, when taking flops I think most people out think themselves (or inexperience), or don't want to believe they ran into AA or KK and simply call.Keep in mind, a lot of NL ring game newbies play AQ like AK, and in this case you are a huge favorite. I guess you could say you just really need to know your opponent as well.Most of the above is a mix of ring play and tourney scenarios, neither of which I really clarified.In any case, you did the right thing in your situation, and a lot of poker decisions can be a "well it depends" situation.I don't know if what I said made much sense, bleh. Good luck anyways, hope something helped.Oh, and finally, never fold QQ face up. Ever.- Jordan

[wrto4556]

You have the 3rd best starting hand in the game!You shouldn't lay down ladies to a simple re-raise. I'de re-raise your ass ever time.

[Jordan]

Are you talking to me?That's fine if you are. I'd realize you kept re-raising me, or whomever from other pots you'd play and go all in with my QQ every time you tried to "push me around". Once you did pick up AK or KK or AA, good for you, I'd still be taking my chances with the hand (espicially in ring game that I have the BR for).I wasn't suggesting how to play QQ in all situations, most of my decisions come from how I know the other guy plays.I don't fold QQ much, but good luck. I don't really play a solid game either, but whatever. - Jordan