90 replies to this topic

[DanielNegreanu]

Blinds: 200-400Ante: 25Stack Size: 14,000Hand: A-9 off suitPosition: Cutoff seat (next to the button) Everyone folds to you at a 9 handed table and you make it 1200 to go. The button folds, and the small blind goes all in for a total of 4000, 2800 more to you. You have minimal information as to your opponents tendencies, but you assume that he has a decent hand. Do you make the call, or do you move onto the next hand?

[BigBoyBill]

:wink: :arrow: 8) Well Dan, I could be wrong but the ante's alone = $225 and with the blinds and your $1,200 bet it would be hard for me to lay down A9! Except for a super long shot you're up against pocket Aces, you can out draw any other pocket pair.You liked the A9 enough to bet the pot and considering your massive chip lead, I think I would call the All-In betand hope for a Ace or 2 pair with the 9.Tell me why I'm wrong?BBB

[Adam]

My answer is to fold.The reasons why I would fold are:a. (I'm going to pretend like I know pot odds here), there's 225 (in antes), your 1200, the BB's 400, and the SB's 4000. That's 5825 in Tchips. The amount of chips you need to put in is 2800, giving you about 2 to 1 on your money. Now, if you were to put the rest of the 2800 in with A-9, it's only a good call if you are absolutely sure that he has a pocket pair below your 9, or a weaker ace than yours, and since you're not sure of your opponents' holdings, it would be safer to fold and move on to the next hand, especially in tournament poker. If you think he has an ace with a higher kicker, the pot needs to have at least 3000 more in it to make it worth your call (3 to 1), and even then, you're gambling.b. For a better read on your opponent's hand, you have to realize that the person that went all in was the small blind. The small blind, while shortstacked, isn't in that much of a hurry to put all of his chips into the pot, especially since he's the small blind, and is about to be button, he obviously thinks he's not gonna get a better hand than the one he has for seven to sixteen more hands or so. His posistion alone reveals that he's not messing around, and probably has at least A-J or a higher pocket pair. A-9o is just such a dominated hand by a lot of things against an all-in except 8's or lower and A- x<8. c. Save your chips. 2800 chips with those blinds and antes are a lot. It's a better strategy to keep your money so you can get more out of the hands that you know you're the favorite, opposed to guessing and not really having a read on your opponent for 4/14 of your chips, opposed to folding and only giving up 1/14 of them.Hopefully my answer is close to being right, since this is my first post on this forum, and first impressions go a long way. [/i]

[Adam]

accidently posted x2, don't know how to delete posts... :oops:

[BigBoyBill]

:wink: Thanks Dan,My first thought was about the "Pot Odds" but I guess I felt somewhat "pot commited" and the Killer in me just wanted to knock this guy out!However your path makes the most sense because anyone in the SB would have Big Slick or a nice pair to risk all their ammo!You can buy anything but words of wisdom with Master Card...Those my friend are "Priceless!"Good luck on getting the "Poker Corner" show on Travel Channel! Or maybe the Game Channel,Fox Sports,Bravo or ESPN?I expressed mailed a Media Kit to Barry Schulman and Jan Fisher atCard Player and Steve Lipscomb and Mike Sexton at W.P.T. in West Hollywood. Hope it helps save the show!Bill FrickeConcept DesignerNationWide Media Inc.williamfricke@yahoo.com

[BigBoyBill]

:oops: Sorry Adam, I thought you were Dan! Duh! But it did sound a lot like him...I wonder what his answer will be? BBB

[allinbluff35]

Blinds: 200-400 Ante: 25 Stack Size: 14,000 Hand: A-9 off suit Position: Cutoff seat (next to the button) Everyone folds to you at a 9 handed table and you make it 1200 to go. The button folds, and the small blind goes all in for a total of 4000, 2800 more to you. You have minimal information as to your opponents tendencies, but you assume that he has a decent hand. Do you make the call, or do you move onto the next hand?With the information that was given I think the the correct move to do would be to fold. The reason I would have is that with 200/400 level blinds it seems to be in an earlier stage of the tournament because of the stack size provided. With an investment of 1200 chips into the assumed pot of 225(antes)+1200(your bet)+400(big blind)+4000(assuming small blind is included with all-in)=5625(hopefully). I would have to fold as you have minimal info. on the tendencies of your opponent and move on to the next hand because I would not be willing to risk an all-in from the small blind who may or may not have a descent hand :?: , and is trying to steal your bet because he could possibly think that is what you are doing.

[Adam]

I was wondering what was up. I don't think he'd post an answer three hours after he posted the question. :wink: Ooh.. I like these emoticons. :DQuestion, if you knew it was me and not Daniel, would you have answered with such praise? lol.

[ddudley]

I'd have to agree with adam... looks like at best we are a 3:1 dog with our opponent holding A-10 or better or 10-10 or better. Even if we are up against 8-8 or lower it's still 57-43 and we are risking 1/3 of our chips. :? Our attempt to win the pot against little or no opposition has failed. It's time to fold and move on to the next hand.

[tekn0wledg]

Hmm.... well, the pot is laying about 2-to-1 here, but I'm not convinced I have the best hand. I'm probably out kicked if he has an ace and he may be suited as well. If it's a pocket pair I'm not too much of a dog to make this call, but if he has an ace I'm weary.I'd still have 10k in chips if I make the call here, so this isn't too horrible either. This is really tough.... I'm really undecided and as such my first instinct is to fold. I would like to call and take down this pot though, but I'm going to fold.

[pocketburn]

This is my first post, so don't expect much wisdom here, but I think I agree with the general consensus. Although it wasn't explicitly stated in the question, it appears that we're in tourney format because of the blind/ante structure. If I'm reraised by that much from the SB, I'm going to assume that he has to have some sort of solid hand here to be reraising out of position. I took my shot at the pot with A9, it didn't work, I'm going to fold and keep my still large stack in relation to the blinds. I'm trying to work on my tourney play, and I'm pretty sure that I can find a better hand at this stage to commit >20% of my stack with. I'm probably wrong, but those are my $.02

[bassplayer45459]

I would fold, you are not really getting any good pot odds, maybe 2-1 to stretch it, but just wait for another time...the pot is not enough to warrant a call.

[NUTTYMATT]

I would call. If you are not prepaired to call the SB then I wouldnt have raised in the first place. The small blind might think you are stealing the blinds. Also the SB doesnt have much chips left, so he could have had a mid to small pocket pair, a KQ,KJ,K10, or even an ace with a smaller kicker. The only way your in big trouble is if he has AA or a ace with a higher kicker. With that many chips I wouldnt fold in that situation.

[bigox420]

I woul take the chance to take down that player and call

[Sundevils21]

fold-Travis

[Munky]

Fold. Your ace is dominated or he's got a pair which at best would be a race situation and you'd only have 3 aces to hit in the deck (assuming that you're 9 is no good because his pair is higher than 9). It also depends on how often I've been winning races. If I was on a rush like no other, then I'd call. Assuming I'm not because I only have 14,000 chips, my knee jerk reaction is, "You have A9... fold..." If I put him on a pocket pair lower than 9's, I would consider calling. It's about a 2:1 call and from how I see it, if he's got an ace with a better kicker, then you only have 3x outs. If he's got a pair higher than 9, you've still... only got 3x outs. For me... I'd retire the A 9 and wait for another hand to break that player.

[SwedishPro]

Theres a big concept in tournaments you all have to understand.Except shit hands like 92, 58 etc your always at least 30% win-% in a heads up situation. This math make its O.K to CALL an ALLIN bet when you are BIGSTACKED and move ALL IN when you are SHORTSTACKED.Just one requierment, the potodds must be 1:3. In this case...Pot: 5600 to call it would cost you 2800. The potodds for this must be equal to coinflip and in this case i belive not. Fold.

[srblan]

tekn0wledg said:

If it's a pocket pair I'm not too much of a dog to make this call, but if he has an ace I'm weary.

If his pair is 9s or better than you are getting horrible pot odds to make a call. You are at least a 3-1 dog against a pair that is not an underpair. I agree with your ultimate analysis that this is probably a reasonable fold, though.

[Wilderness]

I have to say fold here as well. Most people have already said why, with the pot odds, your stack size, etc. The one thing that I didn't think about until someone mentioned it above me is that since he is in the small blind, with a large table, he must think that he won't get a better chance to try and double up because he will have plenty of time to wait until the blinds get back to him. Even though the ante's would slowly eat into his short stack if he waited for the blinds to come back, it wouldn't put enough of a dent that he couldn't wait if he thought he'd get a better hand in that time.

[srblan]

SwedishPro said:

Theres a big concept in tournaments you all have to understand.Except **** hands like 92, 58 etc your always at least 30% win-% in a heads up situation. This math make its O.K to CALL an ALLIN bet when you are BIGSTACKED and move ALL IN when you are SHORTSTACKED.Just one requierment, the potodds must be 1:3.  In this case...Pot:  5600 to call it would cost you 2800. The potodds for this must be equal to coinflip and in this case i belive not. Fold.

I totally agree with this assessment, though there is one thing that is not entirely clear. It is not 100% clear that we are the big stack. Our relative chip position at the table might influence our decision on whether the call makes sense. If the other stacks at the table are big enough to push us around then a lot of our ante steal attempts might fail. They are probably going to be tempted to come over the top of us having seen us chuck this hand with 2:1 odds on a call. It might help our table image and prevent marginal hands from trying to bully us by showing down this hand. You are 60% to win against a random hand with A9. Against the average hand that someone might go all in with (a pair or an ace), according to a neat little table I found at twoplustwo, A9o is roughly 47% which means that the call might not be horrendous. Anyway, just something to think about.