8 replies to this topic

[MarkZ]

$30 buy-in27 people3000 chips to start5 Left:UTG - x amountChip Leader - Roughly 30kButton - x amountSB - x amountMe (BB) - 25kBlinds 500/1000, 200 ante.Chip Leader is solid player, one that I would've liked avoiding, considering he's the only one who can cover me and he's pretty good.Chip Leader limps, I raise to 5000 with AK, he calls, so roughly 11k in the pot.Flop is J83. I check, he checks.Turn is K. I check, he checks.River is T. I bet 5000, he immediately goes all-in. I have about 13k if I fold. What do you guys think?

[MrConceit]

XXEddie said:

Id say Q 10, or a set.....also, dont raise 5xBB, at max raise 3.5xBB

Dude, come on. Are you trying to tell me one size fits all? I mean in Harrington's book which I just started (because of all the rave reviews) I've already read that he says typically 3ish, but sometimes as low as 2x and sometimes as high as 5x. For example I tend to raise higher if there is a limper, since they usually will call a normal 3x. I mean basically if you have something like QQ/JJ that you don't mind at all taking down preflop (when blinds are huge). Also I'd do this if I'm stealing too, since you try to play the same regardless preflop as to not give stuff away.I just dislike people saying you have to do an exact action, every time. It's not like you can't vary or SHOULDN'T ever vary. The reason I like poker so much is that there isn't always one single best or only answer.

[bsabres81]

The preflop raise is fine. I would be tempted to call if he was a good player as you say, and if he is capable of making a move on you. Its hard to come up with a hand he would play this way 5-handed. Limping and calling your reraise is an odd way to play any of the hands that beat you.Hands that have you beat:AQ - would have raised pre-flopQ9 - wouldn't have called your raise10 10 - would have raised pre-flopany other set - odd to check these hands back to you with draws on the board, plus probably would have raised pre-flopJ10s - possible, but I think if you are going to call a large raise there, you have to bet that flop.If he is a good player, he knows you are going to find it difficult to call in this situation without the nuts or nearly the nuts. Your bet seemed weak, which may have been the reason he made this play. Of course, you probably play AQ the same way, and there you have the nuts. I would need a good feel for the other player to really make a decision, but it seems he was making a play on you.

[Wilderness]

Why didn't you raise on the flop? He easily could have been thinking you were just trying to make a play when you raised from the BB so you have no clue what he has.Then, after not betting the flop, you see the turn and you hit it ... so why would you check? You need to bet here, and what he does will give you more information about his hand.Finally, you get to the end, and it looks like you are just trying to buy the pot. When he comes back over the top, he could be doing so with just about anything if he thinks you don't have anything and will have to fold.From the way you played it, I think you have to fold.I don't think he has a hand like AQ, because 5 handed it seems very likely that he would raise with it. He could have something like Q10, and he called pre-flop because he thought you were just making a move. He also could have something like 88 or 33, and he kept checking either because he didn't consider the straight draw that was made possible on the turn, or because he didn't think you would have something that could make a straight. Still, I would think he would bet out with a set, at least after the turn comes. So its hard to put him on something, and there is a chance you have the best hand here, but I don't think you gave yourself any way of knowing so you have to fold.

[pokerplayer75]

It doesn't matter what he had. You should have bet on the turn. Now you have to fold.

[MrConceit]

XXEddie said:

MrConceit said:

Dude, come on. Are you trying to tell me one size fits all? I mean in Harrington's book which I just started (because of all the rave reviews) I've already read that he says typically 3ish, but sometimes as low as 2x and sometimes as high as 5x. For example I tend to raise higher if there is a limper, since they usually will call a normal 3x. I mean basically if you have something like QQ/JJ that you don't mind at all taking down preflop (when blinds are huge). Also I'd do this if I'm stealing too, since you try to play the same regardless preflop as to not give stuff away.I just dislike people saying you have to do an exact action, every time. It's not like you can't vary or SHOULDN'T ever vary. The reason I like poker so much is that there isn't always one single best or only answer.

You cant raise 5xBB ESPECIALLY when you have AK, maybe <AYBE with a 4 2 but if your opponent does not have apremium hand you will not be payed off

I didn't read the forum for a bit, sorry to respond to this late, but I saw the thread again when somebody posted.No you don't vary your bet totally off what hand you have, but you can and should vary it at times. As far as never raising 5x (with AK) because you have AK and want to be paid off... I dunno about that. You're 66 percent chance to miss the flop anyway, and blinds were a solid size, what's so wrong with taking it down now? I like giving people the wrong idea by my bets as to what I have anyway. You can often give people the wrong idea by slightly overbetting or underbetting. They think you're weak when you're strong, and vice versa. I've even occasionally gone allin in late-mid with AA because it looks fishy like I don't want to be called. And I've been called a reasonable amount by co/button or a blind who has like AJ or a mid to semi-high PP. I'm talking online tourneys of course. These is obviously an extreme example and not exactly what we were talking about, but I wanted to put it forth as another type of misdirection in raises/bets.