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was down tonight (the sequel), took 335 to 10/20


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#21 ChrisOfSpades

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 11:41 PM

Dynon07 said:

Whats with all this unneccessary negativetly. Chill out guys really.
because you posted in strategy w/o any interest in discussin strategy. its simple really. this belonged in general.

#22 pokerplayer24

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 11:42 PM

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I guess I will but my judgment is not that bad, like everyone says.My bankroll is around 10-11K for whoever asked.
If your bankroll is this size then risking 300$ at 10/20 nl isnt a huge deal. Just the thing is you're putting yourself into a game thats way higher then you usually play at a time when you most likely aren't playing your best because you are down money. You would be much better off taking a shot and playing a 5/10 nl game (with the full 1k buy in) when you're up a decent amount on the day rather risk going farther into a hole in a game that you have little to no advantage over as you are buying in for less then 20 bb.I understand you're problem as I used to go through it as well. Just in the end if you go to crazy with it these -500$ days that are pretty easy to swallow (considering your roll) will turn into -1500-2k days that are much harder to take.

#23 Dynon07

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 11:44 PM

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Few things, first off you're playing with scared $.  To not raise AJs in a 4 handed, 4 handed!!! game is absurd.Absurd you guys really love this AJ hand that beats no quality raised hands......#2 calling with 47 a pair of 4's is a fairly easy call on the river.  150$ is less then an 8 bb bet.  Its not a big bet and its fairly obvious you took a stab on the flop and then checked the river with overs or a flush draw (in this case both) and then took another stab at the river.Yeah normally might agree, but guy sat there lowstacked just like me to try to hit a big hand, just seemed like a dumb call with the one card straight out. You guys seem to lean a little bit more towards give people credit for good calls so I can see where you are all coming from.  The 44 hand is kind of just a whatever case imo.  You had 3.5 bb, its unlikely your're dominated in a 4 handed game.  So not a big deal.Lets see what else.  You called off 1/3 your stack preflop, out of position with A6s.  If you're gonna take a stand push over the top preflop instead of playing a marginal hand at best.I wanted to see the flop, yeah it was a mistake but getting it all in preflop normally doesn't appeal to me at all.The all in call with 99 makes plenty of sense.  People dont seem to realize how unbelievably shortstacked dynon is buying in here.  In the end you're flipping coins for money as any decent hand and you're stuck committing your entire stack.Exactly thats why none of the plays are that ridiculous.I've watched enough of the 10/20 nl game on stars to know that the regulars there make all their $ off of people like this who jump up with insufficient funds and basically give away their $.Yeah I hate shortstacks with all my soul, they actually ruin the quality of the game. These people do normally lose but every now and they double up or even more.Dynon whats your bankroll at as i'm assuming its no where near enough to play 2/4 nl let alone 10/20 nl.
My bankroll is fine, I just wanted 500 back quick.
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#24 Dynon07

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 11:47 PM

pokerplayer24 said:

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I guess I will but my judgment is not that bad, like everyone says.My bankroll is around 10-11K for whoever asked.
If your bankroll is this size then risking 300$ at 10/20 nl isnt a huge deal. Just the thing is you're putting yourself into a game thats why higher then you usually play at a time when you most likely aren't playing your best because you are down money. You would be much better off taking a shot and playing a 5/10 nl game (with the full 1k buy in) when you're up a decent amount on the day rather risk going farther into a hole in a game that you have little to no advantage over as you are buying in for less then 20 bb.I understand you're problem as I used to go through it as well. Just in the end if you go to crazy with it these -500$ days that are pretty easy to swallow (considering your roll) will turn into -1500-2k days that are much harder to take.
Thats good advice and when I see people buy in for 20 at the 200 I laugh at them, even when they buy in for 60 I laugh at them. So i know those guys were obviously laughing at me trying to kill me off so someone with some actual money could come in , not some gay shortstack who only goes all in frequently.
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#25 Dynon07

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 11:48 PM

ChrisOfSpades said:

Dynon07 said:

Whats with all this unneccessary negativetly. Chill out guys really.
because you posted in strategy w/o any interest in discussin strategy. its simple really. this belonged in general.
Yeah your right. This is a dumb thing to do normally and from a strategy standpoint retarded. I just posted it here cause the other one was here.
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#26 pokerplayer24

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 11:55 PM

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Absurd you guys really love this AJ hand that beats no quality raised hands......
The game is 4 handed. You do realize that right? I mean you played in it. If you had any understanding of poker at all you would understand that the less people at the table the stronger hands like AJs become. Not raising AJs in a full ring game can be considered a leak. Not raising it 4 handed is just bad. If you're up against a hand that is better then AJ, which only consists of AA KK QQ JJ, AK AQ, you will surely here from it before the flop as you will be reraised when its 4 handed. I realize that AJ isnt the best hand but when its 4 handed you have to loosen up and that means raising a wider range of hands preflop. Hands like QJ, KJ, A10 which are all very mediocre in full ring games become far stronger hands when you are playing in a 4 handed game and on top of that are likely to have position on the people who call your raise.

#27 DrawingDeadInDM

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 11:59 PM

1) Here, let me make this statement and let's see how you feel..k?I would prefer AJs four handed over AKs in a nine handed game.Why do you think that is? Because I guarantee you that I've got the best hand, oh, 90 percent of the time, roughly. Why would you NOT raise with it? This is really, really bugging me. 2) If that guy was just like you and was *so* shortstacked, did you really think putting him all in was going to get him to fold?He hit a pair when it was fairly obvious you were on a missed flush draw. I think you're going to get this call more times than you realize--or want.3) You said none of your plays were ridiculous because you're just flipping coins for money. No, the plays were just bad. They were made ridiculous by the fact you shouldn't have even been at this table.4) If you want to make your money back, take the amount you lost, go to the online casino, put it on black and cross your fingers. You do realize that's basically what you're doing, correct?5) You say you play to avoid variance. Variance doesn't sound like your problem. Poor preflop and bankroll decisions sound like your problem.6 It sounds like you make a reasonable amount of money doing it, and that's fine. But I think you're missing how much money you left on the table in *just* the hands you showed us.
I'm also fed up with the common cold but I just hate to say goodbye.

#28 Dynon07

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 12:01 AM

pokerplayer24 said:

Quote

Absurd you guys really love this AJ hand that beats no quality raised hands......
The game is 4 handed. You do realize that right? I mean you played in it. If you had any understanding of poker at all you would understand that the less people at the table the stronger hands like AJs become. Not raising AJs in a full ring game can be considered a leak. Not raising it 4 handed is just bad. If you're up against a hand that is better then AJ, which only consists of AA KK QQ JJ, AK AQ, you will surely here from it before the flop as you will be reraised when its 4 handed. I realize that AJ isnt the best hand but when its 4 handed you have to loosen up and that means raising a wider range of hands preflop. Hands like QJ, KJ, A10 which are all very mediocre in full ring games become far stronger hands when you are playing in a 4 handed game and on top of that are likely to have position on the people who call your raise.
For my strategy this will not work. How often do you see people reraising with AK and the flop is nothing and they look like a deer in the headlights. This guy isnt ideal for me, I play very very aggressively. When I see people raising A 10 I think they are idiots. Yeah AJ beats all those hands, but what does it matter when you miss the flop. When you in a room with a bunch of heros they are callin you down anyway. Hell if the flop is 10 2 8 and you raised huge preflop, people automatically assume AK and call you down. I raise these hands occasionally when I'm feeling fancy but raising A 10 preflop is never going to be added to my list of things to do.Yes I obviously understand these hands are stronger shorthanded. Just doesn't fit my style at all. You have to be feared, and when people see you raising AJ is sure doesn't strike fear into anyone.
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#29 pokerplayer24

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 12:03 AM

In the end this is just an example of why NL poker is so profitable. Players tilt, they play above their head and they give money away to those level headed players who play their game and try not to worry about wins or losses.

#30 Dynon07

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 12:11 AM

Drawingdead I agree with your first statement , I'm just telling you personally raising AJ doesn't not style my style and it would ruin my image.Second statement , I thought the guy was smart and not going to risk call 150 with a pair of 4's. It's not that strong he didn't beat much thats for sure. If you guys like that call, thats your opinion. I don't think its too good, but whatever.Third statement. My plays weren't that bad, You guys play totally different style then me I can already tell. 4th - Yeah its exactly the same, I mentioned above this is extremely stupid and I think shortstacks in general are stupid.5th - I don't have poor preflop decisions just cause I don't raise AJ. My bankroll managements needs a little work, but so does everyones' who lives strictly off this game and nothing else.6th - I don't really get sixth point.Anyway we might as well stop arguing. Your guys perspectives and my perspectives are totally different and we are never going to come to an agreement.
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#31 DrawingDeadInDM

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 12:18 AM

Dynon07 said:

Drawingdead I agree with your first statement , I'm just telling you personally raising AJ doesn't not style my style and it would ruin my image.Second statement , I thought the guy was smart and not going to risk call 150 with a pair of 4's. It's not that strong he didn't beat much thats for sure. If you guys like that call, thats your opinion. I don't think its too good, but whatever.Third statement. My plays weren't that bad, You guys play totally different style then me I can already tell. 4th - Yeah its exactly the same, I mentioned above this is extremely stupid and I think shortstacks in general are stupid.5th - I don't have poor preflop decisions just cause I don't raise AJ. My bankroll managements needs a little work, but so does everyones' who lives strictly off this game and nothing else.6th - I don't really get sixth point.Anyway we might as well stop arguing. Your guys perspectives and my perspectives are totally different and we are never going to come to an agreement.
An agreement does nothing for me. Capitulation is not in *my* best interests. It's in your's.My sixth point was this. Look at the AJ hand. You raise that preflop, you take it down right there, more than likely. You raise that preflop and get called, a continuation bet takes it down on the flop more times than not. See how you left money on the table?
I'm also fed up with the common cold but I just hate to say goodbye.

#32 Dynon07

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 12:21 AM

Well I sat down to AJ suited and it sure didnt put a smile on my face, so I didn't raise it. I can't defend myself here so if you're really interested in my reasoning for all this hit me up on AIM at Dynon07, I'm sure I won't sound like an idiot after we are done talking.
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#33 DrawingDeadInDM

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 12:29 AM

Dynon07 said:

Well I sat down to AJ suited and it sure didnt put a smile on my face, so I didn't raise it. I can't defend myself here so if you're really interested in my reasoning for all this hit me up on AIM at Dynon07, I'm sure I won't sound like an idiot after we are done talking.
I don't care if you're freaking Prahlad Friedman, David Sklansky or a leper who's playing a game with some missionaries. If you don't raise with AJ four handed, you're an idiot and you lose equity.But, to each his own, and you make a profit, so, whatever works for you.
I'm also fed up with the common cold but I just hate to say goodbye.

#34 Dynon07

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 12:38 AM

DrawingDeadInDM said:

Dynon07 said:

Well I sat down to AJ suited and it sure didnt put a smile on my face, so I didn't raise it. I can't defend myself here so if you're really interested in my reasoning for all this hit me up on AIM at Dynon07, I'm sure I won't sound like an idiot after we are done talking.
I don't care if you're freaking Prahlad Friedman, David Sklansky or a leper who's playing a game with some missionaries. If you don't raise with AJ four handed, you're an idiot and you lose equity.But, to each his own, and you make a profit, so, whatever works for you.
Raising with AJ just isn't a consistent winning thing with six people on table. Maybe 4 people but not six. Maybe on the button, thats the only time I might consider it. If you raised AJ all night you would miss at least 2 out of 3 times. Then you gotta take stab, only way you can win. Plus the first time that play is exposed you lose lots of credibility , I just dont think its a consistent profitable thing. If you like fancy poker, raise AJ all you want, if you want to bet super strong hands and the nuts into major fish and always win, raising AJ is outta the question. I win 80-90% of hands I am betting in, so it makes no sense for me to raise weak hands like that, it just goes against my strat, just a personal thing.
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#35 DrawingDeadInDM

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 12:41 AM

Dynon07 said:

DrawingDeadInDM said:

Dynon07 said:

Well I sat down to AJ suited and it sure didnt put a smile on my face, so I didn't raise it. I can't defend myself here so if you're really interested in my reasoning for all this hit me up on AIM at Dynon07, I'm sure I won't sound like an idiot after we are done talking.
I don't care if you're freaking Prahlad Friedman, David Sklansky or a leper who's playing a game with some missionaries. If you don't raise with AJ four handed, you're an idiot and you lose equity.But, to each his own, and you make a profit, so, whatever works for you.
Raising with AJ just isn't a consistent winning thing with six people on table. Maybe 4 people but not six. Maybe on the button, thats the only time I might consider it. If you raised AJ all night you would miss at least 2 out of 3 times. Then you gotta take stab, only way you can win. Plus the first time that play is exposed you lose lots of credibility , I just dont think its a consistent profitable thing. If you like fancy poker, raise AJ all you want, if you want to bet super strong hands and the nuts into major fish and always win, raising AJ is outta the question. I win 80-90% of hands I am betting in, so it makes no sense for me to raise weak hands like that, it just goes against my strat, just a personal thing.
It really bothers me that you offer strategy assistance in your avatar, and just said that raising AJs isn't profitable four and six handed.
I'm also fed up with the common cold but I just hate to say goodbye.

#36 teneight

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 02:10 AM

dynon07, what site do you do play at? what is your ID there? just curious. we should play some heads up nl ..any limit you want :club: teneight btw, i'm very serious

#37 Dynon07

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 04:48 AM

teneight said:

dynon07, what site do you do play at? what is your ID there? just curious. we should play some heads up nl ..any limit you want :club: teneight btw, i'm very serious
I dont play heads up much, it doesn' t suit my strategy.
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#38 DrawingDeadInDM

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 04:53 AM

Dynon07 said:

teneight said:

dynon07, what site do you do play at? what is your ID there? just curious. we should play some heads up nl ..any limit you want :club: teneight btw, i'm very serious
I dont play heads up much, it doesn' t suit my strategy.
I want to know what this strategy is.It's profitable, if we can believe you, and I trust that we can.But, you've demonstrated the ability to piss on the concept of expected value, hand values, table texture and general concepts, so..let's hear it.
I'm also fed up with the common cold but I just hate to say goodbye.

#39 Dynon07

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 04:54 AM

It really bothers me that you offer strategy assistance in your avatar, and just said that raising AJs isn't profitable four and six handed.[/quote]Most of my strategy advice is given by other knowledgable players. There is only one strategy I would personally recommend . The one you can live off poker with. Other people have different motives to play , and different objectives. If you want to play quality poker and have an exciting time there is other ways to play, but i only advocate my way with nets profit 85-90% of sessions.
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#40 DrawingDeadInDM

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Posted 08 December 2005 - 05:37 AM

Dynon07]It really bothers me that you offer strategy assistance in your avatar, on and just said that raising AJs isn, said:

Most of my strategy advice is given by other knowledgable players. There is only one strategy I would personally recommend . The one you can live off poker with. Other people have different motives to play , and different objectives. If you want to play quality poker and have an exciting time there is other ways to play, but i only advocate my way with nets profit 85-90% of sessions.
-Thankfully, it's not given by you.-To have fun? To make the most money possible? It's one of the two..so...-Bullshit. Plain and simple. No one wins 85-90% of the time. Maybe over a twenty session period. But not a 100, or 200, or 300.
I'm also fed up with the common cold but I just hate to say goodbye.




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