i won but did i play this well??? (plo)

[CaneBrain 97]

My opponent is loose but pretty savvy....but he overplays his hands some. Not sure if I should have called his flop raise....in fact I am pretty sure I played it poorly and got too attached to my aces. I just figured my flush draw was live and that he had it in him to try and bluff. Thoughts?Full Tilt Poker Game #322754821: Table Atlantic (6 max) - $1/$2 - Pot Limit Omaha - 23:59:55 ET - 2005/12/05Seat 1: bear8888 ($521.90)Seat 2: BJCAS ($170.50)Seat 3: CaneBrain888 ($192.85)Seat 4: Poweriz ($181), is sitting outSeat 5: Great_One82 ($80)Seat 6: Sagetigernja ($278.75)BJCAS posts the small blind of $1CaneBrain888: haha keep telling yourself thatCaneBrain888 posts the big blind of $2The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to CaneBrain888 [6h As Kh Ad]Great_One82 foldsSagetigernja calls $2bear8888 raises to $5.50BJCAS foldsCaneBrain888 raises to $19.50Sagetigernja foldsbear8888: one of us is going down, huh?bear8888 calls $14*** FLOP *** [5s Qh 4h]CaneBrain888 bets $42bear8888 raises to $168CaneBrain888 raises to $173.35, and is all inbear8888 calls $5.35CaneBrain888 shows [6h As Kh Ad]bear8888 shows [4s 3s 9c 4c]*** TURN *** [5s Qh 4h] [7h]*** RIVER *** [5s Qh 4h 7h] [2d]CaneBrain888 shows a flush, King highbear8888 shows three of a kind, FoursCaneBrain888 wins the pot ($386.70) with a flush, King high*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $388.70 | Rake $2Board: [5s Qh 4h 7h 2d]Seat 1: bear8888 (button) showed [4s 3s 9c 4c] and lost with three of a kind, FoursSeat 2: BJCAS (small blind) folded before the FlopSeat 3: CaneBrain888 (big blind) showed [6h As Kh Ad] and won ($386.70) with a flush, King highSeat 4: Poweriz is sitting outSeat 5: Great_One82 didn't bet (folded)Seat 6: Sagetigernja folded before the Flop

[chappy3 0]

I check/call on the flop here, would love to see the A

[highsociety 0]

I think I could be wrong as well in how I would play this but maybe one of the better PLO players here on FCP whill chime in for you on how they would play it. On the flop I would probably check then call the bet from my opponent, right now ur just on a pair of Aces and drawing to the second nut flush, not that strong in Omaha. Once I made my hand on 4th st I would get more aggressive and try to get value for my hand then pray that the board doesn't pair or the :heartsa: fall's on 5th st giving you the nuts. If you look at the hand you'll realize u got all your money in drawing to 9 cards. (2 Aces, 7 Hearts) I leave the :hearts2: out because that gives your opponent a full and you dead to one of the two aces in the deck for a higher full. Anyways that is my opinion.

[ivegottadollar13 0]

i completely agree with high society you gotta relax on pushing the aces there check/call the flop and see what hits....to many people push aces hard on omaha and it ends up hurting them in the end but nice take down on the pot man congrats

[alf13 0]

Well...I am one of the better PLO players here so I will chime in...... :wink: You played it like crap......I like your aggressiveness preflop.....when the flop came...believe it or not...it is not all that great of a board for you...you could be in serious trouble vs. a nut flush draw open ender...I think check and call is in order on this flop......(remember that this is a cash game)...not a MTT.If you were playing a PLO tourney...I think you played it well.Once you get raised on the flop...you have to know that you are beat....and you are then just putting money in on a King High Flush draw.....= Donkey.

[CaneBrain 97]

Well...I am one of the better PLO players here so I will chime in...... :wink: You played it like crap......I like your aggressiveness preflop.....when the flop came...believe it or not...it is not all that great of a board for you...you could be in serious trouble vs. a nut flush draw open ender...I think check and call is in order on this flop......(remember that this is a cash game)...not a MTT.If you were playing a PLO tourney...I think you played it well.Once you get raised on the flop...you have to know that you are beat....and you are then just putting money in on a King High Flush draw.....= Donkey.

yeah my PLO game is weak right now. havent played in so long. to be honest he had hit like 3 sets in the last 15 hands or so and I just couldnt believe he had one again and made a dumb play. luck is nice.

[highsociety 0]

Well...I am one of the better PLO players here so I will chime in...... :wink:  You played it like crap......I think check and call is in order on this flop......(remember that this is a cash game)...not a MTT.Once you get raised on the flop...you have to know that you are beat....and you are then just putting money in on a King High Flush draw.....= Donkey.

Hey alf13, thanks for chiming in on this one for me. I play a bit of PLO and studied it a lot but haven't played thousands of hands like hold'em so I was unsure as to wether or not my "play" of this hand would be correct. But seems like we would both play it the same way so not too bad I guess.

[Deepkoncntrtion 0]

I like your aggressiveness preflop

Why, neither ace is suited, his re-raise is screaming that he has aces...now his opponent is going to stick his whole stack in if he hits 2 pair, because he knows half of his hand. Reraising w. aces pre-flop is usually only +ev when you can get at least 3/4 or your whole stack in the pot.

I think check and call is in order on this flop......(remember that this is a cash game)...not a MTT.

I disagree. He re-raised pre-flop, thus he took control of the betting and needs to lead at the pot in order to find out where he's @, check calling is weak tight, and you will get destroyed playing that style in plo. Once the opponent repotted the total pot was @ $252 and he needed to call $126, thus he is getting 2-1 odds on his money.If the opponent has top set he and no other draws he is a 33-67 underdog. He's a 32-68 underdog to middle set with an open-ended draw, and finally he's a 30-70 dog to an open-ended nut flush draw.

Once you get raised on the flop...you have to know that you are beat....and you are then just putting money in on a King High Flush draw.....= Donkey.

I agree that laying down once he was repotted was the correct move, he is basically a 3/4 dog...so 2-1 odds is -ev. This is all read dependant tho...in my games, there are some very smart LAG's that will always repot on the flop when they know some1 is leading @ them with aces. If the opponent had 2 pair and no other draws then this would be a +ev play based on the 2-1 pot odds...

[alf13 0]

Why, neither ace is suited, his re-raise is screaming that he has aces...now his opponent is going to stick his whole stack in if he hits 2 pair, because he knows half of his hand. Reraising w. aces pre-flop is usually only +ev when you can get at least 3/4 or your whole stack in the pot.  Ever thought of favorable board texture?  He could have gotten it.....jamming a pot with the best hand is always +EV.I disagree. He re-raised pre-flop, thus he took control of the betting and needs to lead at the  pot in order to find out where he's @, check calling is weak tight, and you will get destroyed playing that style in plo.  Of course it's weak tight....this is low limit PLO....weak tight works here.Once the opponent repotted the total pot was @ $252 and he needed to call $126, thus he is  getting 2-1 odds on his money.Well...yeah...you wouldn't have to make that decision with a check and call....

I repeat...this is Low Limit PLO....weak tight is right....Think about it....

[thrope 0]

besides the fact he was basically telling his opponent he had aces, dont you guys think his opponent even seeing that flop is pretty god awful

[KVOM 0]

Odds calculator shows you are a 2-1 dog after the flop.

[CaneBrain 97]

besides the fact he was basically telling his opponent he had aces, dont you guys think his opponent even seeing that flop is pretty god awful

in my defense there are several other types of hands I will play the same way preflop (especially a low 4 to a straight like 8765) to keep people off balance.i still played this badly.and yes I was surprised at what my opponent had....he had been playing crap all night and I figured he could definitely just be on a move.

[Deepkoncntrtion 0]

I repeat...this is Low Limit PLO....weak tight is right....

Your advice applies to micro-limits only...playing weak-tight in 1/2 game is suicide for your win/rate. @ best you will be a break even player around 30K hands.However, suppose some1 does adopt your style and builds their roll high enough to play the $400 and $600 games. They will be @ a major disadvantage b/c of all the bad habits they've created from playing tight-passive in $200.TAG (tight agrress.) is the optimal way to play plo if you are weak postflop, and the biggest winners in my database are very smart LAG's (loose aggress).I have great respect for your hold em game Alf, but here your stating some seriously flawed logic...

[alf13 0]

I repeat...this is Low Limit PLO....weak tight is right....

Your advice applies to micro-limits only...playing weak-tight in 1/2 game is suicide for your win/rate. @ best you will be a break even player around 30K hands.However, suppose some1 does adopt your style and builds their roll high enough to play the $400 and $600 games. They will be @ a major disadvantage b/c of all the bad habits they've created from playing tight-passive in $200.TAG (tight agrress.) is the optimal way to play plo if you are weak postflop, and the biggest winners in my database are very smart LAG's (loose aggress).I have great respect for your hold em game Alf, but here your stating some seriously flawed logic...

When I refer to low limit PLO...I mean .25/.50, .50/1, and 1/2.....You can beat those games just betting your good hands and pushing all 60/40 edges.....all + draws can be bet heavy also...You must avoid pushing what could be a very small edge.THIS IS THE PLAYBOOK I WROTE for low limit PLO and if you disagree...that's fine....but it works....and HAS WORKED.For the record....I play alot of 1/2 and 3/6 PLO.....and I play a crafty LAG style....But I cannot beat and YOU CANNOT BEAT my ROI in my .50/1 multi table sessions.....Try 42% ROI over the last 7 months. (842 hours) I understand that this is not a massive sample...but it is definately a trend.

[Deepkoncntrtion 0]

For the record....I play alot of 1/2 and 3/6 PLO.....and I play a crafty LAG style....But I cannot beat and YOU CANNOT BEAT my ROI in my .50/1 multi table sessions.....Try 42% ROI over the last 7 months. (842 hours) I understand that this is not a massive sample...but it is definately a trend.

I post in this forum to help others w. their game, and more importantly, to improve my game. I don't post in order 2 boost my ego.Your right, I could never beat a 42% ROI...I don't play STT's or MTT's...I am more concerned with improving my win-rate%, otherwise know as BB/hr. Maybe your using a different program that calculates ROI for cash games...i've never heard of it b/4 tho...

[alf13 0]

For the record....I play alot of 1/2 and 3/6 PLO.....and I play a crafty LAG style....But I cannot beat and YOU CANNOT BEAT my ROI in my .50/1 multi table sessions.....Try 42% ROI over the last 7 months. (842 hours) I understand that this is not a massive sample...but it is definately a trend.

I post in this forum to help others w. their game, and more importantly, to improve my game. I don't post in order 2 boost my ego.Your right, I could never beat a 42% ROI...I don't play STT's or MTT's...I am more concerned with improving my win-rate%, otherwise know as BB/hr. Maybe your using a different program that calculates ROI for cash games...i've never heard of it b/4 tho...

I keep my records based on ROI....sorry....I have done my records based on ROI for a couple years now.....I don't play much limit anymore...