donk play or bad call?

[Steeeve28 0]

Full Tilt Poker Game #315611933: Table Greycrest (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:34:24 ET - 2005/12/01Seat 1: junejulymay ($14.10)Seat 2: BuickGS ($19.50)Seat 3: shaggytoodle ($20.10)Seat 4: golcapmike ($48.75)Seat 5: JuniorPSU ($27.70)Seat 6: steeeve28 ($45.95)BuickGS posts the small blind of $0.25shaggytoodle posts the big blind of $0.50The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to steeeve28 [Ks Kd]golcapmike foldsJuniorPSU raises to $1steeeve28 raises to $3.50junejulymay foldsBuickGS foldsshaggytoodle foldsJuniorPSU calls $2.50*** FLOP *** [Ac Qs 8c]JuniorPSU checkssteeeve28 bets $5.50JuniorPSU raises to $24.20, and is all insteeeve28 calls $18.70JuniorPSU shows [Qh 8h]steeeve28 shows [Ks Kd]*** TURN *** [Ac Qs 8c] [6h]*** RIVER *** [Ac Qs 8c 6h] [7s]JuniorPSU shows two pair, Queens and Eightssteeeve28 shows a pair of KingsJuniorPSU wins the pot ($53.35) with two pair, Queens and Eights*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $56.15 | Rake $2.80Board: [Ac Qs 8c 6h 7s]Seat 1: junejulymay (button) didn't bet (folded)Seat 2: BuickGS (small blind) folded before the FlopSeat 3: shaggytoodle (big blind) folded before the FlopSeat 4: golcapmike didn't bet (folded)Seat 5: JuniorPSU showed [Qh 8h] and won ($53.35) with two pair, Queens and EightsSeat 6: steeeve28 showed [Ks Kd] and lost with a pair of KingsI played it poorly I guess, but I put him on a low pocket pair that missed the flop when he went all in. Didn't think he'd call my re-raise with something like Q 8 but he later gave me all the donk reasons for it (i.e. it was suited, i was pot committed, gotta play hands, etc.)Thoughts?

[Scott3705 0]

My thoughts.1. Use the converter.2. he doesn't need two pair.. all he needs is an ace. The way you play it he's got to give you credit for atleast Kings and his check raise says that he can beat Kings. You're beat by any Ace here. Very bad call. Best hope here is he's on a total bluff, but your best logical hand to be up against is kj of clubs3. Why does the C/R mean low pocket pair to you?

[bdc30 0]

My thoughts.1. Use the converter.2. he doesn't need two pair.. all he needs is an ace.

This all could have been solved with a proper raise preflop.What's with the donkey raise from $1 to $3.50 ? ? Raise it like a real man and get those Q 8 hands out of there.edit - i didn't see that the blind was only .50, and that hedonk-min-raised it, so your re-raise is "more" correct, butI still would have raised more. Make it around $6-7.

[Steeeve28 0]

He min-raised preflop, I raised to 7BB. Thats not enough to get the Q 8 out? This is only .25/.50 man.It's just as well cause I won all my money back from him a little while later.

[bdc30 0]

He min-raised preflop, I rasied to 7BB. Thats not enough to get the Q 8 out? This is only .25/.50 man.It's just as well cause I won all my money back from him a little while later.

See edit above - sorry. I still say you should have raised it up more.Any donk that min-raises it preflop has NO concept of what a 7.5 x BB raise means. In these games, Aces or Kings need to get a lot more than that in the pot. If you're playing 400max or higherplayers at that level SHOULD understand the implication of a 7xbbraise, but not at .25/.50.

[rusmac31 0]

I think the pre-flop raise is fine...you re-raised to almost 4x his original raise...that should get everyone else to fold.Yes, he probably should've folded his Q8 soooooted pre-flop, although short handed suited Q is not as bad as you might think, but I would've folded. But, you want Q8 to call you, he's paying 2-1 as a 4-1 underdog; be glad he did because usually you'll win $4 or all his chips when the donk hits his Q or 8.But he didn't so on the flop, his check raise would tell me Ax, AQ, A8, 88.There are so many hands that beat you and not too many hands you beat. Sometimes it's hard to fold KK but I don't have any problem folding it to a re-raise on this type of board. If he's bluffing more power to him, but more often than not he won't be bluffing.Glad to hear you got your money back later! :-)

[Scott3705 0]

3. Why does the C/R mean low pocket pair to you?

[Pokerdad2222 0]

I think the preflop raise was ok. Games like this I would maybe go a little more just cause people dont realize what a re-raise like this means. The call post flop at this level was pretty bad though. You can only beat a bluff here. Players at these limits will call this raise with just about any ace and think there pair is a monster and check raise you because, after all, that is what you do when you hit a pair of aces...Even though he didnt have the ace here he still had a winner. With guys like this calling re-raises with Q8 you can usually find a better spot the get their money

[Steeeve28 0]

3. Why does the C/R mean low pocket pair to you?

Sorry never answered your question. The reason I didn't put him on an ace is because i had watched him pretty carefully throughout the session and noticed that when he had a pair of aces, or just top pair, he'd bet out with it, wouldn't try any move like a check raise. I'd also seen him move all in when his pocket 7's missed a flop of all overcards. Really just thought he was trying to steal the pot with this move, obviously a misread on my part, but I couldn't put him on something like Q 8 and really thought he'd just bet out if he had the ace.Like I said before though, i did get all my money back from him in the end, and have plenty of notes on him for next time