12 replies to this topic

[GregF]

2 Questions for the low-limit hold'em ring games specialists . First, what do you do with A-10 off and A-10 suited in early position ? I'm totally messing up with that hand I think.My second question: What do you do when you're on the big blind with something like Q-9 and hit top pair with middle kicker on the flop ? Being first to act, I never know if I should bet or what. And is it the same play if you have no kicker, like a deuce ?Thanks

[Awful]

AT off I muck in EP, open-raise in MP, but mostly because I don't know WTF to do with it when I hit, so many times I trapped myself because someone thought "well, with 5 people in, AK isn't worth a raise" and so on. I just get myself in a bad way with that hand. I'd like more advice on it.ATs I raise 1st in, dump to a raise before me, though, since I have the extra way to win. I just think the top pair value of ATs is insufficient; you've got a bad kicker or lots of possible overpairs/overcards.OK, for TPWK and even middle pair from the BB: Look at the size of the field and the action. Bet out into small fields, or even decent-sized ones. You can't let people beat you for free, you are good more often than you think, it's hard to hit a flop. Dump big with little cards to preflop raises due to domination, and don't take a bad kicker with an ace because that's the card everyone will play at low levels. Other than TP with aces and no kicker, see where you are, and don't neccesarily shut down on the turn, as middle and bottom pairs are gonna call you. It's tough, and it increases swings, but you're OK often enough to make it in the long run as long as you don't call when it gets back to you raised and reraised, etc.Someone chime in with better ideas for ATo, and yell at me if I'm passing bad advice.

[wrto4556]

ATo I dumb from EP, open-raise from middle position, limp from middle position after callers, and raise in late position short-handed.ATs I limp from early position, raise from middle and late position.Q9 from the BB I bet with TPWK. I bet the turn, too. But if i'm raised on the flop, I check/fold the turn. Consider it good until someone sais otherwise...by raising, of coarse.BUT, if the TP is low, like T4 and I flop a ten, I wont even bet. I check/fold. Reverse implied odds are too big.

[Awful]

Now that you mention it, on the big blind special when unraised, you're usually gonna see mid-size cards and are much more likely to get into kicker trouble with TP 7-10. I always assumed that it didn't matter as any overpairs to even those meager pairs would make themselves known, but in further considering your post I also found that merit in dumping bad TPWK's you pick up, in addition to the reverse implied odds, which are compounded by your lack of position, since you have to fire on the turn into many overcards that have rendered your hand worthless.edit: for some reason I had TPTK where I meant TPWK, that has been remedied

[wrto4556]

Awful said:

Now that you mention it, on the big blind special when unraised, you're usually gonna see mid-size cards and are much more likely to get into kicker trouble with TP 7-10. I always assumed that it didn't matter as any overpairs to even those meager pairs would make themselves known, but in further considering your post I also found that merit in dumping bad TPTK's you pick up, in addition to the reverse implied odds, which are compounded by your lack of position, since you have to fire on the turn into many overcards that have rendered your hand worthless.

Exaaaaaactly.30% of the time, your hand gets drawn out on. 30% of the time, your kicker is no good, and 10% of the time you are out played....where does that leave you? -EV

[Leedspokerguru]

Agree. A 10 off easy muck unless you are picking up the blinds. Only open raise with A 10 suited from middle position or call from the blinds, that is on the lower limits of course.

[UglyJimStudly]

GregF said:

First, what do you do with A-10 off and A-10 suited in early position ? I'm totally messing up with that hand I think.

Depends on how loose the table is. If I know at least 4 people will see the flop and they're prone to playing naked aces (not at all uncommon at low limit tables), then I'm comfortable opening with AT. Otherwise it's mucked. Suited doesn't make a huge difference to me in early position, in late position I'm more likely to raise with ATs (just by virtue of the fact that I'll raise with just about any suited ace against a loose-passive table - nut flushes pay off huge at those types of tables, I don't have to make it very often to come out ahead).

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My second question: What do you do when you're on the big blind with something like Q-9 and hit top pair with middle kicker on the flop ? Being first to act, I never know if I should bet or what. And is it the same play if you have no kicker, like a deuce ?

Presumably nobody raised preflop so it's kind of a passive table, very often I'll toss in an early bet in this sort of situation to see if anybody liked the flop. Cheaper to find out with a small bet now than a big one in later rounds. Then probably fold if there's any significant action by players known to play half-decent hands, otherwise play on later rounds will vary so much depending on the individual players and board that it's hard to give guidelines. But in the much more likely case that some of the later players are tighter and more aggressive than the table average, this becomes a check-fold hand. Q2 is pretty much always check-fold.

[DiverDown4]

get rid of a-10 off early. ats, well it depends on the table i guess, in a loose game i would limp, a tight game ill probably raise. as for top pair/mid kicker, i would probably bet also and see what happens from there, if its a mutiway pot, thats been raised from late pos and you play the hand, i might check raise the preflop raiser, depending ont he sitution and the type of player it is.

[jblade81]

AT in early or middle i dont play. muck it, what real hands do you favor? don't even say its suited, what are the odds to flop a flush draw. biggest key to beating a loose game is being extremly tight and selecivly aggerssive. TPWK, i bet to find out where I am out, you could very easliy have the best hand. At the same time be ready to muck for a raise, unless you can find a reason soneome raises, like with a flush or st8t draw. Knowing your oppositions goes a long way.

[Smasharoo]

First, what do you do with A-10 off and A-10 suited in early position ? I'm totally messing up with that hand I think.Limp with ATo UTG. Folding ATo even UTG in a loose low limit game is -EV. I tend to limp with ATs UTG and UTG+1 also. If it's a game where cold calls are very likely I'll raise it. The value in raising it EP only applies if you're likely to get many cold calls, at least three or four. You don't really want to be heads up with AJo. When you're playing low limit games with frequent large multiway pots you have to accept the fact that you're going to occasionally pay off a hand that dominates you. The pot sizes are so large however, that it's more than compensated by the times you're paid off by A2-A9. Folding AT in EP in a loose game is terrible. JK is another story.My second question: What do you do when you're on the big blind with something like Q-9 and hit top pair with middle kicker on the flop ? Being first to act, I never know if I should bet or what. And is it the same play if you have no kicker, like a deuce ?Bet, and no it's not the same play. Q9 is worlds better than Q2. You could check, but you're going to call a bet anyway in a large pot anyway, so you might as well bet it.

[Smasharoo]

AT in early or middle i dont play. muck it, what real hands do you favor? don't even say its suited, what are the odds to flop a flush draw. biggest key to beating a loose game is being extremly tight and selecivly aggerssive.Yeah, wrong, wrong, wrong.I don't know where you came up with that one, but it's horrible advice. If your goal is to beat a loose game for 1.5 BB/100 hands play extremely tight. If it's to crush it play your maringal hands well and play well postflop and be relentlessly agressive.

[JaysonWeber]

I was a bit suprised people folded A-10os UTG in Low-Limit games..these games are full of fish who's idea of a starting hand is less than A-10 os... If its a 6 man table and ppl are respecting my raises, I might even raise with this hand.. although not normally.You can't afford to fold A-10os in a Low Limit Online Game... Not for the blinds.

[wrto4556]

JaysonWeber said:

I was a bit suprised people folded A-10os UTG in Low-Limit games..these games are full of fish who's idea of a starting hand is less than A-10 os... If its a 6 man table and ppl are respecting my raises, I might even raise with this hand.. although not normally.You can't afford to fold A-10os in a Low Limit Online Game... Not for the blinds.

Yes you can, and you should everytime you get the chance.