11 replies to this topic

[ibuddy]

Alright I get 44, and im playing against a pretty good player. I always play with this guy and know he is not your regular donkey, he knows how to make moves and when to make them. Well here it goes.....I get 44 and basically we go heads up and we are playing 2-5 NL. Flop comes10c 4h 8c so i raise his bet from 40 to 100 (just want to raise a lil bit to figure out where he was and wanted him to stay in the pot). He calls...turn comes Qc he checks i bet 150 he calls....the river comes 6 of clubs....he pushes all in for 400!im sitting there just thinking what the hell did i get trapped into??So im like sorry for taking so long this is a big decision because i did have the 4 of clubs. And Im trying to get some sort of information out of him....so i say "I dont know how i can lay this down" and he goes, want to see one card?? and im like sure and he shows me the 8 of spades...so i look back at the board and im thinking okay u were on a straight draw??? Do u have A8 with the ace of clubs...turn trapped u in? No way I dont believe you....if i call this im cleaned out.......Now I want your honest replys on this before you read what happened.....Conclusion:I folded and since me and him know each other I showed him my big lay down and said u got to show me so i know if i made the right call or not. He showed me 10 8....no clubs! AHHH!!! So we talked about the hand and he said, i didnt put u on clubs i figured u had a big hand but the clubs screwed u and i told myself if another club comes that doesnt pair the board i push all in so u cant call. It was a hell of a play but i think i did the right move...i dunno ...need feedback. :shock: :shock:

[TML28]

WOW! he sure put you to a tough desicion! After I read your post I was thinking I would fold that too.Consider this.13 clubs in the deck5 clubs that you know of including your 4cany 8 random clubs remaining. With a 400$ bet I think you got to fold.Question: How did you make out the rest of the night?

[AlanBostick]

Let's see now, there's 500 in the pot on the river, and your opponent pushes all-in for 400 more. The pot is laying you 9:4. You have a hand that can beat a bluff, but pretty much can only beat a bluff.If your opponent bluffs too often, you should always call here. If your opponent doesn't bluff often enough, you should always fold here. If your opponent bluffs the game-theoretic optimal amount, it doesn't matter what you do.Game theory suggests that if you don't have a handle on your opponent's bluffing frequency, if the situation repeats itself thirteen times you should call four times and fold nine times. That is to say, your calling frequency should be 4 in 13, or just about 30%.Roll dice, toss a coin, or find some other way of randomizing your response.

[The Bwaves]

No high club, no call.

[fopkins]

Why call?Pick a better spot.-fop

[iggymcfly]

Well, according to Caro, players usually make extravagant gestures like that when they're relaxed with a big hand, so I'd probably figure him for the flush there and let it go. It's definitely not an automatic fold here though. I remember I was playing a NL cash game heads up last summer, and someone made a large bet on the river when four to the flush came up. I don't remember exactly what he said, but whatever it was, it made me think he didn't have the flush. However, there was an overcard to my pocket pair on board. I had enough confidence in my read to make the call with pot odds, but I still ended up losing to top pair. The whole rest of the night, I was kicking myself for not raising there because it was a pretty large pot, and I would have taken it down easily with a reraise.

[RikyRicardo]

I think the lay down was right, but I think I over bet the pot on the turn and make him pay me... push while u know youare ahead

[RikyRicardo]

I think the lay down was right, but I think I over bet the pot on the turn and make him pay me... push while u know youare ahead

[RikyRicardo]

I think the lay down was right, but I think I over bet the pot on the turn and make him pay me... push while u know youare ahead

[The Bwaves]

So I think a raise on the turn would be good. Just read the last 3 posts.

[fopkins]

RikyRicardo said:

I think the lay down was right, but I think I over bet the pot on the turn and make him pay me... push while u know youare ahead

Overbet the pot? Yeah, if you see that he only has one club...Bad idea, he only calls with a hand that has you beat. (flush, higher set)-fop

[petersun]

So I would have folded. However, reading your post, here are the questions that I think we should ask to help us piece together this hand:1. Why did he raise with just 8s after the flop, does he have a track record of raising with bottom pair? What might he have? Trip 8s is a possibility. Did he bet like he had 8s before the flop? But he bet it like he had top pair...would this have led us to believe he had top two or 8 4 (not likely since you have 2 4s). 2. Why did he check the turn. He seemed to fear the Qc as much as you. You know he doesn't have the made flush at that point cause he showed you he could only have one club. The 8 also eliminates a straight draw.I think his showing you the card actually provided you with enough info to make the call. Not that I would think so clearly or have time to piece it together correctly. Like I said, I would have folded.