27 replies to this topic

[Alcatraz]

Playing .50/1 No limit I've got pocket rockets UTG. I double the blind, hoping to trap someone. My table image was pretty tight and a larger raise would likely have earned me just the blinds... as it is, only the big blind called me.The flop came K73 rainbow and the BB made a pot size raise. I raised back, about triple the size of his raise. He came over the top for about half his stack. I called.Turn came 9, he moved all in, and I called him down. He showed a 93 suited and won a $150 pot (yes, one hundred and fifty at a 50 cent/one dollar game).With better than 80 already in the pot, was I wrong to call another 40 on the turn?

[the_stein]

well your problem is you didn't think about the SIKoh yea and "don't double the blind to trap someone"

[Alcatraz]

[quote name='the_stein]well your problem is you didn't think about the SIK[/quote]You're right' date=' I didn't think about the SIK. In fact I'm still not thinking about the SIK.Um... what the heck is the SIK?[/quote']oh yea and "don't double the blind to trap someone"[/quote]Is there a better way to trap someone? Or do you mean I shouldn't be trying to trap with my AA? Had I raised more pre flop, I would have picked up the blinds. While this is vastly superior to the result, I don't really mind someone 3 betting bottom pair for half their stack against my AA in general. The result sucked ass in this situation but I'm not particularly concerned about that. I believe both my preflop and flop play had positive EV, my question is the turn call.

[Smasharoo]

With better than 80 already in the pot, was I wrong to call another 40 on the turn?Not really.You were wrong to play Aces so slowly pre-flop though.Stop doing dumb things like that.

[Alcatraz]

Smasharoo said:

[b]You were wrong to play Aces so slowly pre-flop though.Stop doing dumb things like that.

Yes sir!Although I disagree. Aces are too good to just win the blinds.

[FOOSE1]

I learned this lesson long ago . . . it's better to win a small pot . . . than to lose a big one!!DO NOT SLOW PLAY BEFORE THE FLOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Smasharoo]

Yes sir!Although I disagree. Aces are too good to just win the blinds.You're free to disagree.You're wrong though.You'll figure out why eventually.

[Alcatraz]

Smasharoo said:

[b]Remember, it's about winning money, not pots.

A little bit later I was playing at the same limits but a very different table. This new table was much more inclined to call preflop raises and so I made a larger raise UTG with pocket queens. I lost again to 87o but that's not why I bring it up -- It was a different table with different players and I knew that I could get action with my preflop raise. In the prior example, I knew that a large preflop raise would win the blinds and nothing else.In a large game, taking the blinds is a good thing. In a fifty cent/dollar game, I'm not interested in stealing blinds.

[Smasharoo]

In a large game, taking the blinds is a good thing. In a fifty cent/dollar game, I'm not interested in stealing blinds.You're right, stealing the blinds would be much worse than losing 100X the blinds to some funky two pair who's only in the hand at all because of your weak pre-flop play.

[KramitDaToad]

Yes, always raise it up with bullets.I mean if you had gone for $4 raise, he came back with a reraise of $12, you then go to $36 and he goes all in you can safely say to yourself "He must have the SIK" and you can bin your second best hand... :shock:

[copernicus]

your objective with AA in no limit is to get action, but isolate the opponents to 1 player, and you accomplished that. Your opponent happened to be a joker who caught cards on this one.However, unless youve got a super read on your opponent (which would have been wrong in this case anyway) you have to expect a set, 2 pair, or AK from him. A total bluff just doesnt seem to make sense given the small size of the pot going into the flop, and playing anything but TPTK that strongly is at least a semi-bluff.Since there are only 6 AK's vs 9 sets plus 27 possible 2 pair combinations you are a 6/1 dog on cards. Throw in 12 awful KQ's played that way and youre still a 2/1 dog. (If I can count after no sleep!) For you to go toe to toe with him you would have to be playing him for a bluff well over half of the time. (In fact he should be semi-bluffing less than 1/3 of the time with bottom pair.) Unfortunately he was bluffing but managed to turn the right card.Winning no-limit play is winning a lot of small pots (but not just blinds with AA!), and an occasional big win with the nuts, and not going for a ride without the nuts. Going for > 70 bb's without the nuts is nuts!

[JFarrell20]

Smasharoo said:

In a large game, taking the blinds is a good thing. In a fifty cent/dollar game, I'm not interested in stealing blinds.You're right, stealing the blinds would be much worse than losing 100X the blinds to some funky two pair who's only in the hand at all because of your weak pre-flop play.

lol. He's right. Look what happened you lost like $75 because you got greedy.

[KDawgCometh]

anytime I've gotten cute with aces it always backfires. Don't mess around with them, its always better to win a small pot then lose a big one

[Joenin]

Theres a few things I wanted to comment on here. Firstly if they not paying off your raises your playing too tight and should steal more blinds. They start not respecting them at all you tighten up and punish them, play according to the game! Secondly, it probably be a better move to raise a bit more then the 2x as that gives all kinds of people with all kinds of random hands a good shot to take a shot at you and you know you have a hand thats will be hard to get away from. NL is about difficult decisions and you will have to make them, but its more then alright to try to avoid them as much as possible to. Also remember your UTG, do you really wanta anyone but the blinds who calls position on you?. Lastly I think you had to call this turn but shouldn't of had to call it. You should be folding this hand or moving in on the flop and the answer to that is as much math as how the game is playing & how that opponent is playing.

[Aburame Shino]

If you've got rockets, you should play very aggressively before the flop. Calling one more dollar isn't going to scare anybody at small limit in the big blind. I'd have made it three fifty. Better to win a small pot with a killer hand than to stay in the hand and get killed by a lucky hand.

[copernicus]

"In a large game, taking the blinds is a good thing. In a fifty cent/dollar game, I'm not interested in stealing blinds. "The size of the game should be irrelevant to whether or not you are interested in stealing blinds. The ability to occasionally steal blinds and pick up 3/4 of a big bet without a lot of risk is still 3/4 of a big bet vs an average return of 1-2 bbs per hour, whether a bb is $1 or $1oo. If you arent interested in stealing blinds because the limit is too low to bother with, you probably have other leaks because the limit is too low. Why give away money?

[Alcatraz]

I misspoke. I have no problem stealing blinds no matter the size of the game. When I have aces, I want more than just the blinds. Over the course of my life time I've made far more by making small raises pre flop with aces than I have lost. My question was not about the pre flop play. I understand that several of you disagree with my preflop play. That's fine, we can agree to disagree. I mentioned the preflop play only to help set up the hand.My question is entirely on the post flop play. Is there a point in the hand that I should have laid the aces down, and if so when and why?

[ljjr_99]

I'm almost to the point where i just fold rockets. Everytime i play them it doesn't matter if i try to slow play them or go all in pre flop some joker calls me and gets two pair or trips...i have a better winning percentage when i play 10-2 offsuit

[onthebutton]

Slowplaying AA just asks for disaster. After the flop, it's just another pocket pair--so when do you lay it down? When you think it's beat, that's when.