15 replies to this topic

[bascomeb]

After 10k hands at 2/4 10 handed on PartyPoker I am really getting frustrated. As you see by my stats. I am just about even playing 2/4 and I really feel it is because of a downswing of bad variance I've been having. I've been sucked out so bad in so many ways lately its just sickening. And I've never tilted.Anyway I know its not just bad luck so i was wondering if you guys could help me interpret my stats some.The help is apprecieated.Total hands: 11,149VP$IP: 15.04%VP$IP from sb: 39.28%Folded sb to steal: 83.05%Folded bb to steal: 46.99%Fold BB to steal HU: 37.1%Att. to steal blinds: 29.43%Won $ When Saw Flop: 32.39%Amount won: $45.24Win Rate per 100 hands: $0.40BB/100: .10 (yeah pathetic i know)WTS: 29.56%Won $ at SD: 54.29%Raised preflop: 7.46%Limp/call reraise preflop: 0%First action on a flop after a preflop raiseraise- 13.7%bet- 56.01%Call- 3.61%check- 6.01%check/raise- 1.2%Fold- 3.73%No Flop/ No Action- 15.75%Let me know if you need more info on my stats to help me outThanks

[jemeriqua]

Those numbers look terrible! You must be a horrible player to not even beat the game for 1BB/100. :-) :shock: :? 8) :x :evil: :cry: :!: :wink: :roll: :oops: :twisted:

[Canada]

Don't be fazed. Those stats should be showing a positive return over time.Even excellent players will see break-even patches over 40k hands.Suggestions though for tweaking.Your VPIP can go up a notch. At a guess you may be able to add a few more margnial hands in late position/large fields.Personally I defend my BB a little more, but that is not going to effect much.WTSD is a little low, but W$SD is good so not sure that there is anything wrong here.The only thing that is not showing here that would be a blatant hole is post flop aggresionPost your post flop aggression factors as that will tell us a lot

[bascomeb]

my aggression factor preflop is 0.85on flop its 4.30on turn its 4.01on river its 1.42total is 1.75

[Canada]

bascomeb said:

my aggression factor preflop is 0.85on flop its 4.30on turn its 4.01on river its 1.42total is 1.75

Ouch! I now have coffee running down my screen and a little bit dribbling out my nostrils :shock: Are you only calling when its capped?Flop and turn, especially the turn, are way too high. This is a major leak.2.8 on the flop and the turn would keep a lot of money in your stack.Have a look here: http://forumserver.t...rt=&PHPSESSID=/Seriously calling is not a sin .Beware though. These figures can be caused by folding too much as well as raising too muchYou've got a strong NL background haven't you. Chasing can be +EV in limit

[TheCinciKid]

I find it interesting that I have a similar predicament with about 6k hands of 2/4 under my belt. I've come to the conclusion that I may not be playing very well in heads-up/shorthanded pots because I'm not used to playing them. Hence, I've decided to work on my shorthanded game. This might be the way to go for you as well, though I'm not really sure. I have a very hard time interpreting stats, so I don't really know if there are leaks there.

[bascomeb]

Canada said:

bascomeb said:

my aggression factor preflop is 0.85on flop its 4.30on turn its 4.01on river its 1.42total is 1.75

Ouch! I now have coffee running down my screen and a little bit dribbling out my nostrils :shock: Are you only calling when its capped?Flop and turn, especially the turn, are way too high. This is a major leak.2.8 on the flop and the turn would keep a lot of money in your stack.Have a look here: http://forumserver.t...rt=&PHPSESSID=/Seriously calling is not a sin .Beware though. These figures can be caused by folding too much as well as raising too muchYou've got a strong NL background haven't you. Chasing can be +EV in limit

Canada are you saying that i'm auto betting too much after raising preflop on flop and turn?

[mrdannyg]

your VPIP and PFR are both a little bit low. I would recommend bumping each up by 1-2%. position stats will help a lot with giving you specific advice as to what positions you should be betting/raising with.but Canada is correct - your flop and turn aggression are quite high. I think 2-3 is optimal, and anywhere under 3.5 is probably safe. For your other stats, I think anything over 3.5 is definitely a leak. hard to give you specific advice, but perhaps you could be calling instead of folding or raising in some marginal situations.some examples of where you might call instead of folding or raising is with middle pairs in late position, drawing to 5 outs for two pair/trips, out of position on a straight or flush draw, or even in position on a draw but the bet is right in front of you with several behind you.in some cases you will simply miss after raising pre-flop with high cards and then someone bets into you. raising is only correct here if they are betting with air or can be pushed off the hand. often though you will not be able to push this guy off the hand, but you do have the odds to hit one of your 6 outs. this is all read-dependent, but there are many situations where you can simply peel off a call there and fold the turn unimproved.just some thoughts, but posting your stats by position will probably help a lot with people's abilities to give you specific advice.daniel

[Canada]

bascomeb said:

Canada are you saying that i'm auto betting too much after raising preflop on flop and turn?

No your %'s for flop continuation are ok. You generally bet on the flop as the pre flop aggressor. Of course if your in the SB with AK and 7 see the flop of 789 checking is in order. Your ratios seem ok.It looks like you are simply in raise/fold mode and ignoring the button in the middle.Raising is good when:1) You have the best hand 2) When you have good fold equity (at the limits we play at this is usually lower than you think, and may be the source of your problem)3) When you have excessive pot equity vs player count4) When you have good position relative to the aggresor to clean up outs/thin the field5) Playing for free turn cards with positionCalling is good when:1) Good pot odds but poor pot equity2) WA/WB situations3) Your hand has showdown value relative to pot size4) Looking for overcalls5) Slowplaying and letting overly aggressive players give you their moneyThat's just a generalisation and obviously there is more to it than that, but go over your hand histories and look at all your raises and make sure they meet the above criteria, then look at all your folds and see if any fall into the calling category.Of course if haven't done so read SSHE 647 times

[bascomeb]

Canada thanks for replying. You make some very good points especially about the WA/WB theory. I had to look that up and when I found out it was way ahead/ way behind that made sense. Cause a lot of times after getting 3 betted after raising with a hand like AJ and ace flops i'll check raise instead of check/calling it down then bet/folding on river.anyway here is a hand that i find myself in a lot. If i'm playing against a loose passive opponent which most of the time i am, how would i go about playing this hand?Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is CO with [Kc], [Ad]. 3 folds, MP2 calls.Flop: (7 SB) [5s], [9c], [4s] (3 players)SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, MP2 folds.Turn: (4.50 BB) [Jc] (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.River: (6.50 BB) [Jd] (2 players)SB checks, Hero checks.Final Pot: 6.50 BB

[mrdannyg]

bascomeb said:

Canada thanks for replying. You make some very good points especially about the WA/WB theory. I had to look that up and when I found out it was way ahead/ way behind that made sense. Cause a lot of times after getting 3 betted after raising with a hand like AJ and  ace flops i'll check raise instead of check/calling it down then bet/folding on river.anyway here is a hand that i find myself in a lot. If i'm playing against a loose passive opponent which most of the time i am, how would i go about playing this hand?Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is CO with [Kc], [Ad].    3 folds, MP2 calls.Flop: (7 SB) [5s], [9c], [4s] (3 players)SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, MP2 folds.Turn: (4.50 BB) [Jc] (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.River: (6.50 BB) [Jd] (2 players)SB checks, Hero checks.Final Pot: 6.50 BB

the only given IMO in this hand is the river check and the pre-flop raise.both the flop bet and turn bet are options, but checking on both streets are options.personally, i like to continuation bet any flop, but that is often the incorrect play. with two others in the hand, it is marginal. with one, you bet and with three or more, you check. two is difficult - if the SB is prone to calling, i check right on the flop. one of the more important factors is if you think your checking behind will induce a bluff. if you don't believe it will, then you definitely check the flop.once you've bet the flop, the turn is read-dependent. if the SB is a fish who'll call any flop bet, then bet again. but more often if someone from the blinds is calling the flop they're calling the turn and often the river. in that case you have to decide whether you want to bet the turn AND river, or neither.in a hand like the one above, a flop bet is marginal. even once you've bet the flop though and the turn does not improve you, you probably need to bet the turn and river unimproved, or neither. in such a small pot, i don't think you should be using two bets in the hopes of stealing.not that you should always do it, but in a situation like that, where you have no draw, and a blind in the hand on a low connected board, don't be afraid to just check it out.daniel

[Canada]

bascomeb said:

anyway here is a hand that i find myself in a lot. If i'm playing against a loose passive opponent which most of the time i am, how would i go about playing this hand?Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is CO with [Kc], [Ad].    3 folds, MP2 calls.Flop: (7 SB) [5s], [9c], [4s] (3 players)SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, MP2 folds.Turn: (4.50 BB) [Jc] (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.River: (6.50 BB) [Jd] (2 players)SB checks, Hero checks.Final Pot: 6.50 BB

You've played it exactly the way I would.Preflop: Compulsary raise.Flop is nice and safe, I make the contination bet here with position everytimeTurn: You're heads up with position. The flop holds a lot of draws. I always bet here holding potentially the best hand.River: No value in betting here. If you are winning, SB won't call. Check behind.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

To the OP... first of all, I don't have pokertracker yet so take this for what it's worth.I think people that depend on pokertracker for everything tend to think the sky is falling if their stats (and winrates) don't fall within expected ranges over a statistically significant sample.If you ARE on a downswing, aren't things like "getting below average starting cards" going to do enough to lower VP$IP?Datamine more if it's bothering you. Tweak, but don't overhaul.

[JaysonWeber]

TJ_Eckleburg said:

To the OP... first of all, I don't have pokertracker yet so take this for what it's worth.I think people that depend on pokertracker for everything tend to think the sky is falling if their stats (and winrates) don't fall within expected ranges over a statistically significant sample.If you ARE on a downswing, aren't things like "getting below average starting cards" going to do enough to lower VP$IP?Datamine more if it's bothering you. Tweak, but don't overhaul.

For what it's worth... I'm teaching a friend how to play, he'll watch me play and we discuss things.. So he's jumping a lot of the steps (which I know he is smart enough to do)I told him not to get pokertracker, and to never get it. Call me a maniac, call me an idiot, but that's what I'm doing with him. He doesn't need any crutches.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

All that having been said, I really think not having pokertracker is what's holding me down here between .50/1 and 1/2.The rake is killer, and poor money management and patience is something of a recurring problem with me.I get the feeling that when I do get pokertracker, I'm going to be one of those guys that goes all out with the nitty-gritty of it.

[JaysonWeber]

TJ_Eckleburg said:

All that having been said, I really think not having pokertracker is what's holding me down here between .50/1 and 1/2.The rake is killer, and poor money management and patience is something of a recurring problem with me.I get the feeling that when I do get pokertracker, I'm going to be one of those guys that goes all out with the nitty-gritty of it.

We all do, At that limit at party you probably DO want pokertracker. I don't want people deleting poker tracker after reading that lol. I'm just taking a different approach with him, I wrote up something on word for him to learn, and added a lot of posts regarding the math aspect of poker. He learns to range hands from watching me, I just think out loud and it actually helps me not to get off-track... ever...I recommend teaching and staking a friend, as long as they hit you back with a good percentage for x amount of money. It helps your game big time.TJ I could probably still work something out to get you PT for 10 bucks off, It's a pain in the ass, but I don't mind doing it for ya.