15 replies to this topic

[Great_One82]

I was playing a 50 dollar 10 person tourney, in the 2nd hand of the tourney, I get dealt QQ. I'm in the big blind, and first to act raises 5 times the bling, everyone fold to the button who calls. I decided to take the flop and if an A or K hit I can fold. Flop is 8 6 2, I check/semi trap to see where I'm at. Original raiser bets 250(the pot), if the button calls or goes all in I will call, as he is very aggresive, and I saw him double up on the first hand w/ a7 all in pre vs KK. He folds, and it comes to me. Now I've played for about 1-2 years now, and everytime this has happend to me, I sometimes get a feeling in my guys that he has KK or AA, and usually they do. I've probably lost 4-5 tourneys where I just couldnt fold QQ. I think for awhile, type in I have QQ and will fold it. He shows JJ, which I'm disgusted about. However I do place 2nd in the tourney, so it wasn't a total lose.I'm just wondering would anyone else do the same thing? What are your thoughts. I mean in these online tourneys you don't get that many hands to play as the blinds go up too fast.

[Ramocita]

I find it very difficult to lay down QQ. I have, like yourself have a lost a few tournaments because of QQ.Those Ladies are just to pretty to lay down !!!!!! :wink:

[NUTTYMATT]

I would fold 90% of the time in that position. The only time I would call is if I was the short stack, or I was playing live and had a good read on my opposition. U most likly have the best hand, but why risk it. I always like to err on the of caution. U cant win the tourney on one hand, but u can lose it. I dont like to risk chips online with those kind of hands after the flop, my luck they always have 8-6,2-6, or trips. So u fold the best hand big deal. Its not who wins the battle its who wins the war.

[ddudley]

Let me say first that you obviously made the right choice because you finished second. I guess to get a better idea of what to do we should know the following: What site were you on? How fast did the blinds go up? How many starting chips did you get? But, considering how fast you the blinds go up in MOST online SnG tourneys, I think it's a pretty silly fold. Thats the 3rd best hand there is. He could have also had AK or AQ and tried to buy the pot. Besides J-J, 10-10 and 9-9 would have made the same bet. You can catch some more good cards down the road but, you could have easily gone another 50 hands without seeing any playable cards. In most online SnG's, if you don't see a playable cards for 50 hands you're gone. You are forced to go all in with K-10 offsuit, A-4 suited or worse. You have to ask yourself... do I want to go out with Q-Q and possibly take the chip lead or do I want to get blinded down to nothing and go out with 8-10 suited?Obviously if you have a favorable blind structure and large chip stack, like a $1000 buy-in live tourney then you made the right call. No reason to risk it there. I just can't believe there exists an online SnG format to make this a good lay down.

[NUTTYMATT]

You have to win more then 1 hand to win those SNG tourneys. So if he didnt get any cards for 50 hands he would be in trouble regardless of whether he won that hand or not. I dont think its wrong to play that hand, but it was only the 2nd hand and there was alot of poker left to be played. The other player could also have had a set or maybe 2 pair. Even though the blinds go up fast I would be more conservative.

[ddudley]

NUTTYMATT said:

You have to win more then 1 hand to win those SNG tourneys. So if he didnt get any cards for 50 hands he would be in trouble regardless of whether he won that hand or not. I dont think its wrong to play that hand, but it was only the 2nd hand and there was alot of poker left to be played.

50 hands may even be too generous, it's probably more like 25-30 hands. But, either way there is NOT a lot of poker left to be played. If he could play another 150-200 hands without getting into trouble, then there would be a lot of poker left to play.

NUTTYMATT said:

The other player could also have had a set or maybe 2 pair. Even though the blinds go up fast I would be more conservative.

I think 2 pair is highly unlikely because almost no one would raise with the garbage required to hit 2 pair on that flop, espcially in 1st position. Besides if you use that logic you'd have to fold every hand that you didn't hit a set on when someone bet on the flop. I also think a set is highly unlikely, most people who flop a set are going to check it on the flop. The same goes for AA, this is such a crap flop I'd probably check AA here too, especially after seeing the button win the first hand with A-7. He would almost surely bet after 2 checks. You can almost eliminate every dangerous hand except for KK. Also the 5 times the blind raise just stinks of weakness. There's almost no way he would make a raise that large with AA or KK. I would have put him on a hand like QQ, JJ, 10-10, 9-9, 8-8, A-K or A-Q before the flop. Obviously we have QQ so you can eliminate that and 8-8 seems highly unlikely because of the bet on the flop.I would have called or better yet raised here especially in a tournament format that forces you to win at least one hand in the first 30 minutes or be cripled by the blinds and larger stacks. How many more premium hands are you going to see in the next 30 minutes? If you want to fold, go ahead, it's a free country.Like i said before, if it's a big tounament with lots of chips and blinds going up once per hour, it's a great fold. But in a typical online SnG with the blinds going up every 10 mintes? No way it's a good fold.

[ddudley]

Great_One82 said:

Original raiser bets 250(the pot), if the button calls or goes all in I will call, as he is very aggresive, and I saw him double up on the first hand w/ a7 all in pre vs KK.  He folds, and it comes to me.

What has changed about the hand that you changed your mind after the button folds? The first guy still has the same 2 cards. You are prepared to go all-in, then you fold, I don't get it? Sounds like you had a good read on the hand then chickened out and didn't trust it.

Great_One82 said:

I mean in these online tourneys you don't get that many hands to play as the blinds go up too fast..

I think you answer the question right here.

Great_One82 said:

"You don't win the silver, you lose the gold.".

Did you forget this was your sig when you folded? Could you have won if you had the extra 500+ chips from this hand?

[LoaferGee]

completely agree with dudley .. you gotta either put this in preflop or after the flop.

[Mills]

i have a friend who has an interesting take on these sit n goes. in a typical PP sitngo u get 800 chips (unless u are playing higher limits) blinds increase evry 10 hands. u simply dont see enough good hands to fold queens to an 8 6 2 flop, those structures are messed up anyway as far as im concerned. its a tough situation, if he was playing as eratic as u say he was, maybe, because maybe he dosent move in there with a big hand like a set, and if he flopped two on that flop, well... not much u can do there. that being said i either have him on aces or kings or i win, i think i call.

[Rmoneymaker8]

I would have put him all in because the only two hands your worried of are k/k or a/a. if he doesnt have either of the hands most likely u win. usually u would think he probably had a/k or k/q suited. i would have played it different

[AceSpades11]

I would never fold QQ in this situation in a sit and go. I however have folded QQ in a sit and go before.It was VERY obvious though that someone had AA/KK as 1 person raised, another re raised, another went all.... so basically it was just obvious. BTW from what i recell it turned out the original raiser folded the re raiser called the all-in. The all-in had AA and the raiser had A/K. So nice laydown on my part.Basically QQ is certainly a foldable hand in a sit and go if you get the wrong flop or something like occurs. However, in your situation i think you just gotta bite your lip and re raise him all in. Really i mean it's only $50 right

[Wlleiotl]

i wouldnt have folded, but i certainly wouldnt have told the guy i was folding QQ ! why give your opponent the infomation that you can fold an overpair to that flop, i think of everyone in online tournaments as a clueless moron and i hope other players think that of me. once you get that respect from other players, you cant play nearly as well because they know that you're a decent player and that will hurt you in the SNG and any other tournaments he plays with you if he keeps notesnever give out more infomation than you have to

[Shaffer]

I have folded QQ in a SnG Pre-flop, but I don't know that I've ever folded it when it was an overpair post-flop without an obvious draw on the board. The situation to fold them is more like:Dealt QQ, first to act, raise 3-4xbbMiddle position player (tight) raises all-inButton re-raises all-in, covering meBig blind (tight) calls"Okay, then, never mind"I still vividly remember doing that not too long ago ... when, much to my delight, the middle position player and the big blind turned over KK and AA, respectively, and the button turned over AK.Then the flop comes out QQx and I feel like I'm gonna hurl...

[AndrewBlack]

I also would have put him on a strongish weak hand preflop, like KK QQ JJ 10-10. You move in there with the information your given, you have to think you are PROBABLY best.

[dominiksdad]

AndrewBlack said:

I also would have put him on a strongish weak hand preflop, like KK QQ JJ 10-10. You move in there with the information your given, you have to think you are PROBABLY best.

KK is a strongish weak hand? lol

[Wilderness]

I think that dudley's analysis is right on, and whoever mentioned that you shouldn't have typed in QQ was very much correct. Why would you want to give away information about yourself like that for no reason? Doesn't make much sense if your goal is to win the tournament and not to impress everyone with what a "great" laydown you can make.You said you called and took the flop to see what it was. Well, the only way it could really be better was if you hit trips. You've got a big overpair, and its not much of a flop for a pre-flop raiser unless he has AA or KK which doesn't seem likely although its certainly possible. If he has AK, AQ, JJ, and maybe 1010 or 99 he is going to act the same way after that flop. He's going to come out firing so folding just because you didn't hit a set is not a good move I think. Basically its go time once that flop hits.But you did get 2nd place, so good job on that, I think it was a bad fold but you still must have played well so just file this away and move on.