are you serious?

[DrZebra 0]

I played this Limit MTT yesterday and had the following two hands...Please comment...(I didn't think the Tournament section was appropriate because 99% of those are NLHE and this is more of a limit strat question rather than tournament strat) ***** Hand History for Game 3068995330 ***** 15/30 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (Limit) (Tournament 17590366)  - Sun Nov 20 22:01:36 EST 2005 Table Multi-Table(516334) Table 9 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button Total number of players : 10 Seat 1: thai75 (1000) Seat 2: AmishRounder (1000) Seat 3: reymax (985) Seat 4: joe_5741 (1000) Seat 5: MAGIC13X (1000) Seat 6: Spot81 (985) Seat 7: hatfield13 (985) Seat 8: sspecial (1045) Seat 9: ACESCORPION (1000) Seat 10: DrZebra (1000) hatfield13  posts small blind (10) sspecial  posts big blind (15) ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to DrZebra [ Qd, Qh ] ACESCORPION folds. DrZebra raises (30) to 30 thai75 folds. AmishRounder folds. reymax raises (45) to 45 joe_5741 folds. MAGIC13X calls (45) Spot81 raises (60) to 60 hatfield13 folds. sspecial calls (45) DrZebra calls (30) reymax calls (15) MAGIC13X calls (15) ** Dealing Flop ** :  [ 7c, 7s, Kh ] sspecial checks. DrZebra checks. reymax checks. MAGIC13X checks. Spot81 bets (15) sspecial calls (15) DrZebra calls (15) reymax folds. MAGIC13X calls (15) ** Dealing Turn ** :  [ Kc ] sspecial checks. DrZebra checks. MAGIC13X checks. Spot81 bets (30) sspecial calls (30) DrZebra folds. MAGIC13X folds. ** Dealing River ** :  [ 3c ] sspecial checks. Spot81 bets (30) sspecial calls (30) ** Summary ** Main Pot: 490 Board: [ 7c 7s Kh Kc 3c  ] ***** Hand History for Game 3069076976 ***** 15/30 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (Limit) (Tournament 17590366)  - Sun Nov 20 22:14:26 EST 2005 Table Multi-Table(516334) Table 9 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button Total number of players : 10 Seat 1: thai75 (1055) Seat 2: AmishRounder (1045) Seat 3: reymax (700) Seat 4: joe_5741 (1360) Seat 5: MAGIC13X (995) Seat 6: Spot81 (1315) Seat 7: hatfield13 (750) Seat 8: sspecial (940) Seat 9: ACESCORPION (960) Seat 10: DrZebra (880) ACESCORPION  posts small blind (10) DrZebra  posts big blind (15) ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to DrZebra [ Tc, Ks ] thai75 calls (15) AmishRounder folds. reymax calls (15) joe_5741 calls (15) MAGIC13X calls (15) Spot81 folds. hatfield13 folds. sspecial folds. ACESCORPION calls (5) DrZebra checks. ** Dealing Flop ** :  [ 3d, Kd, 7s ] ACESCORPION checks. DrZebra bets (15) thai75 raises (30) to 30 reymax folds. joe_5741 calls (30) MAGIC13X calls (30) ACESCORPION folds. DrZebra calls (15) ** Dealing Turn ** :  [ 7c ] DrZebra checks. thai75 bets (30) joe_5741 folds. MAGIC13X calls (30) DrZebra calls (30) ** Dealing River ** :  [ 8h ] DrZebra checks. thai75 bets (30) MAGIC13X raises (60) to 60 DrZebra folds. thai75 calls (30) ** Summary ** Main Pot: 420 Board: [ 3d Kd 7s 7c 8h  ]

[pokerplayer24 0]

First hand I think i'm calling down unless someone raises it up.2nd hand I play it the same.

[akishore 0]

hey jim,why are you calling the flop bet in hand 1 if you are going to fold to basically the second-best turn card?? either fold the flop, or call the turn. i would err towards calling down in the early stages of a tournament.second hand i might three-bet the flop, especially in the early stages of a tournament. given that you didn't, i would play it the same on the turn and river.aseem

[DrZebra 0]

I can't really see 3-betting the flop in the second hand since there are two cold callers. What I want is less people in the hand and a raise will not accomplish that. In the first hand, I folded when the K hit the turn because if I was no good on the flop, I'm now drawing dead on the turn rather than drawing very slim. Is this an incorrect line of thought?

[pokerplayer24 0]

Yes, you don't have odds to chase a 2 outer.

[DrZebra 0]

I guess you didn't look at the pot size. I'm actually getting about 24:1 to peel off one card which IS odds to draw to a two outter.

[akishore 0]

ok, makes sense as to your reasoning for both hands.but, in hand one, i really think the pot is too big to fold there. i would definitely call down.aseem

[DrZebra 0]

btw, aseem, why do you say you lean towards calling down early?

[akishore 0]

btw, aseem, why do you say you lean towards calling down early?

early in a tournament, chips gained tend to have higher utility than chips lost. conversely, later in a tournament, chips lost tend to have a far higher utility than chips gained (as payouts change from spot to spot).so, early on, gaining the big pot every once in a while means much more than saving chips more often.aseem

[Steppin Razor 0]

second hand i might three-bet the flop, especially in the early stages of a tournament.

What he said. You might not get rid of the two cold callers, but you might have the best hand here. If you don't, you'll find out. The two cold callers may check/fold the turn. if you 3 bet the flop, then lead the turn, you'll know what you need to.