basic hand - flush draw in a large pot

[Guest Zach6668]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is UTG+1 with [Td], [9d]. UTG calls, Hero calls, MP1 raises, UTG calls, Hero calls.Flop: (11.50 SB) [2d], [6d], [As] (5 players)UTG checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP1 calls, CO folds.Turn: (8.25 BB) [8s] (2 players)Hero bets, MP1 calls.River: (10.25 BB) [3h] (2 players)Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero folds.Final Pot: 11.25 BBI just want to see how others would play it. Any/all criticism is acceptable.Thanks.EDIT - Still new at the table, but from what I had seen it was very loose/passive, so I think my early limping was ok, as the previous hand was a community pot! All 8 players limped!

[Abbaddabba 0]

I wouldnt checkraise the flop there with only one caller in between. The value is marginal, and you may get 3bet, which will face the other guy with 2 bets cold (and as it turned out, he folded for 1 more anyways, but nevermind that). You want to keep it as multiway as is possible.Given that you did raise, if it's loose passive, you can probably check the turn given that you're OOP. You're almost definitely behind against a passive, but at the same time, you may very well get a free card since you 'scared' him by checkraising the flop. Plus, you almost never get him to fold a winner (if he is indeed loose like you say).

[Actuary 3]

I don't raise the flop if only 2 others left and I likley won't have pos.This would also give you a better chance to c/r a flush on the turn.I like the turn bet, you have more outs and maybe some fold equity in a big pot. I'm not committed on this though.

[Mattnxtc 0]

OOP i really dont like to c/r flush draws unless i also have other value in my hand.

[Actuary 3]

OOP i really dont like to c/r flush draws unless i also have other value in my hand.

well, it's hard to c/r in pos. :-) the c/r works great say if you are BB and the pfr in UTG, and you can expect him to bet out, and then you lay another bet on them. But if only 1 or two left, it's not always a good idea.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

I would reraise this preflop to build a pot with 8 people now in.As played, the turn decision is interesting. Betting is certainly profitable if there's even a 1/6 chance of villain folding, and may be profitable even beyond that. But, for a loose passive villain who bet on the flop and called your raise, the chances of him folding may be close to zero, in which case it's better to check and see if he gives you a free card.

[Mattnxtc 0]

OOP i really dont like to c/r flush draws unless i also have other value in my hand.

well, it's hard to c/r in pos. :-) the c/r works great say if you are BB and the pfr in UTG, and you can expect him to bet out, and then you lay another bet on them. But if only 1 or two left, it's not always a good idea.

haha you know what i mean...if hes in position then raising is great since you can take the free card if u dont improve. OOP position you almost always have to bet again so you dont come off weak.

[Briguy 0]

Am I missing something here?Check/call, check/call, check/fold.If you are running a bluff because the table is passive (presumably you have villian on Ax, KK-99 after he slowed down on the flop), then you have to take another shot on the river. You are not going to win with T-high if villian checks behind. I think it's a spew, but the turn bet was a spew, anyway.

[dms26 3]

Am I missing something here?Check/call, check/call, check/fold.If you are running a bluff because the table is passive (presumably you have villian on Ax, KK-99 after he slowed down on the flop), then you have to take another shot on the river.  You are not going to win with T-high if villian checks behind.  I think it's a spew, but the turn bet was a spew, anyway.

he picks up 3 more outs on the turn and took the lead on the flop, I don't think the turn bet is a spew. He could get someone to fold a hand like 77-JJ and maybe even QQ or KK.I don't like the check raise on the flop because all you have is the flush draw, I can see a check raise if you had overcards and a flush draw.

[Briguy 0]

I guess a pseudobluff is ok there, if the read on villian is that he's weak, and folds too many winners. But please, if that's the play, continue on the river. For one more bet, OP could've advertised a maniacal image to the table (if he was caught) or won a 10 BB pot. I usually don't bother with metagame crap on micro tables, but this seems like a good spot to take a stab/get caught.

[Guest Zach6668]

Am I missing something here?Check/call, check/call, check/fold.If you are running a bluff because the table is passive (presumably you have villian on Ax, KK-99 after he slowed down on the flop), then you have to take another shot on the river. You are not going to win with T-high if villian checks behind. I think it's a spew, but the turn bet was a spew, anyway.

he picks up 3 more outs on the turn and took the lead on the flop, I don't think the turn bet is a spew. He could get someone to fold a hand like 77-JJ and maybe even QQ or KK.I don't like the check raise on the flop because all you have is the flush draw, I can see a check raise if you had overcards and a flush draw.

My thinking on the c/r preflop was that there was already 11.5 SB's in the pot, so I have a pretty big equity edge here, and the PF raiser was directly to my left. I didn't really think about the players who folded to the single bet, if more of them would have stayed around, it would have been more profitable, I think. So, after seeing replies, it seems like a marginal play that could have gone either way. I really didn't expect the one caller to fold for the extra bet.Now that it's down to heads up, I figured I had some fold equity, along with my 9 flush outs, and 3 straight outs, so I bet out, thinking he could think I had the ace, and would possibly fold smaller pairs.That was my thinking anyways, thanks for the feedback everyone! :-)

[Actuary 3]

My thinking on the c/r preflop was that there was already 11.5 SB's in the pot, so I have a pretty big equity edge here

Zach, what do you mean by this?(and by preflop, I know you meant flop, right?)

[speedz99 145]

I'm surprised at some of the comments here. Maybe I'm off, but...MP1 is betting from relatively early position, and this isn't happening with anything but an Ace. Looking at the limits and the type of table we're at, I think it's safe to say he is not folding his hand on the turn. Semi-bluffing the turn is a big spew at low limits IMO. Check/call it.Also, the flop c/r is bad, but I think we all agree there.

[Guest Zach6668]

My thinking on the c/r preflop was that there was already 11.5 SB's in the pot, so I have a pretty big equity edge here

Zach, what do you mean by this?(and by preflop, I know you meant flop, right?)

Lol... of course, I did mean flop...Well, I don't know. I was just thinking that I had 35% of hitting my draw by the river, and I figured that building the pot was the right play here. I would be putting far less than 35% of the money in, even if it got down to heads up. I'm not really sure though. That is why I'm posting. I have just read SSHE once, so I was trying to apply some of the concepts, and I have been posting hands here for some feedback.And as for the turn bet Speedz, he was betting that flop no matter what, IMO. He raised preflop, and I think he would try a continuation bet without the ace a large percentage of the time. I could be wrong on that too though.Anyways. I'm out for now, but thanks for the advice guys.Zach

[Actuary 3]

I'm surprised at some of the comments here. Maybe I'm off, but...MP1 is betting from relatively early position, and this isn't happening with anything but an Ace.

I disagree.

[Actuary 3]

My thinking on the c/r preflop was that there was already 11.5 SB's in the pot, so I have a pretty big equity edge here

Zach, what do you mean by this?(and by preflop, I know you meant flop, right?)

Lol... of course, I did mean flop...Well, I don't know. I was just thinking that I had 35% of hitting my draw by the river, and I figured that building the pot was the right play here. I would be putting far less than 35% of the money in, even if it got down to heads up. Zach

the pot doesn't really matter for this purpose.the 35% is for all current betting rounds, not including what's already in the pot.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm surprised at some of the comments here. Maybe I'm off, but...MP1 is betting from relatively early position, and this isn't happening with anything but an Ace.

I disagree.

Ok, so what hand is betting out from MP1 at a loose/passive table that will fold to a turn bet?

[speedz99 145]

Sorry, that was me.

[Actuary 3]

Ok, so what hand is betting out from MP1 at a loose/passive table that will fold to a turn bet?

1/8 times?underpairs, like QQ -99Mainly, I disagree that only Aces are raising preflop.The table is loose passive, not every player necessarily.Haven't seen you on he tables Speed, what's up?

[speedz99 145]

Ok, so what hand is betting out from MP1 at a loose/passive table that will fold to a turn bet?

1/8 times?underpairs, like QQ -99Mainly, I disagree that only Aces are raising preflop.The table is loose passive, not every player necessarily.Haven't seen you on he tables Speed, what's up?

Oops, I missed that he raised preflop. Yeah, it could have been 99-KK. My bad. I still doubt that after a rag turn he folds...but possibly enough to make a bet profitable I guess. I still think that in general the turn semi-bluff leads to more chips lost than won.Yeah, I haven't had a chance to play for a while. I did make it out to the casino this weekend and cleaned up. I'm trying to figure out if I want to put that money in my online bankroll or just keep it separate. I should be playing tonight...