4 replies to this topic

[jayboogie]

NL TournamentBlinds 100/200Hero has 5941 chipsBB has 24127(chip leaderIt's the middle stages of the tournament, about 150 people left and top 54 pays out, so now's the time to be making some moves and I have been starting to steal some blinds here and there, but still probably have a relatively tight image. The BB in the hand is the chipleader in the tournament and has been playing relatively loose and making some donk plays here and there, I mean how else do they get so many chips right?I'm at above average stack at the current moment and right where I want to be really with a good shot of winning.HERO has Kd Kc utg + 1Hero raises to 600, all folds, bb callsPot Size(1300)*** FLOP *** [Ts 9c 5s] bb checks , hero bets 1000, bb callsPot Size(3300)At this point, I don't think my opponent is all that strong, maybe a draw, maybe a pair on the flop, if he was stronger, I think he'd have check/raised as he'd been pretty aggressive.*** TURN *** [Ts 9c 5s] [6s] bb checks, hero bets 1800, bb raises to 3600, hero???Pot Size(8700) This is not the ideal card obviously as it completes a flush and I have no spade, but I obviously can't check either. I'm not sure about my bet, perhaps I should have bet more, but I felt that it wasn't a bad bet either as I would still have the option of laying down my hand if I felt I was beat and still have some chips left and I didn't want to commit myself to the hand. However, when he check/raises me, I've got a decision as to whether to call or not. I really felt like I had the best hand at this point as my read all along was that he wasn't that strong and I felt he was trying to push me off a hand. The minimum raise IMO was full of air, if he had the flush, I'm pretty sure he'd have just set me all-in as opposed to just min raising and leaving me with a bit of chips. On the flip side, I'd still have 2500 chips or so if I laid it down and I'd be knocked out of the tournament if I was wrong and was beat.So, who calls? Who lays it down and lives to fight another day?

[zimmer4141]

I think you have to fold here. There are 3 possibilities that he would play this way. He probably either had a set, flush draw, or straight draw. The only possible thing he could have is QJ, which is very unlikely. Fold here and wait for a better spot.

[copernicus]

This is pretty similar to another thread with QQ facing undercards with draws, and in that one I concluded that with the reasaonable range of hands you can put the other player on it was at best a conflip and the size of the stacks werent giving anywhere near calling odds, even though most of the opponents hands were draws.Part of the negative in that hand was QQ, though, and having KK elminates the threat of K overcards. Also the stacks were not as spread as this, and hero was in better shape after a fold.If you call this bet you are pot committed of course, so its really giving you odds a little in excess of 4/1. If you fold here you have about 2500 in chips left, an M of about 8, and you are outchipped by the chip leader by more than 10/1. You were probably just over average stack, and folding here puts your Q at around 1/2.Overall this position leads me to think a call is right from the pure math perspective. Math is worthless if youre drawing dead here, of course, and the decision probably focuses on your read of the min raise.You posit that a made hand would put you all in instead of the min raise. The other interpretation is that he is dying for a call with the nuts, since he knows that calling this bet pot commits you anyway...ie there is no difference between putting you all in know or on the river, he still has all your chips, so why chase you with an all in?Of course, this kind of play has gotten so much attention from TV broadcasts that at the second level he could be bluffing that he has the flush by the weaker bet.The other thing to look at is that he has committed a substantial portion of his stack to this hand, including the raise. Would he do that in the face of your aggression with just TPTK, the hand you are most likely to be ahead of. I don't think a good player would.So the decision comes down to a read that I think says fold, and the math that says call. My decision would probably turn on how comfortable I felt that I could come back with a 2500 stack. How soon are the blinds increasing? Has the table shown anything regarding defending against shortstack all ins yet? Is it generally tight or loose? Without knowing those things I'm going to say call and be prepared to be put all in on the river. The pot odds youre getting and the difficulty of coming back from a 2500 stack outweighing the gut feeling that hes going to turn over the nuts.

[jayboogie]

I think one of the factors also is that this guy was kind of a donk and had been playing very loose, which is my reasoning for believing I had the best hand. I actually put him on something like a pair maybe with a high spade or something along those lines. Given my read of the situation and that I had dumped a lot of my money in the pot already, I decided to go all-in. I also put into consideration that I'd have been Top 10 in chips if I'd have won this pot and I looked at it as a spot to put myself in a position to win the tournament. This was one of those hands where you either look like a genius making a gutsy call or like an idiot when your drawing dead already. It resulted in the former as the BB flipped over 7T of clubs for a pair with a gutshot draw, he ended up hitting an 8 on the river to fill up his straight and bust me, but I was happy to get my money in as a 4:1 favorite with a chance to become a big stack. I know as long as I keep putting myself in situations like this to get a big stack, I'll eventually break through and win a big tournament sometime.

[copernicus]

jayboogie said:

I think one of the factors also is that this guy was kind of a donk and had been playing very loose, which is my reasoning for believing I had the best hand. I actually put him on something like a pair maybe with a high spade or something along those lines. Given my read of the situation and that I had dumped a lot of my money in the pot already, I decided to go all-in. I also put into consideration that I'd have been Top 10 in chips if I'd have won this pot and I looked at it as a spot to put myself in a position to win the tournament. This was one of those hands where you either look like a genius making a gutsy call or like an idiot when your drawing dead already. It resulted in the former as the BB flipped over 7T of clubs for a pair with a gutshot draw, he ended up hitting an 8 on the river to fill up his straight and bust me, but I was happy to get my money in as a 4:1 favorite with a chance to become a big stack. I know as long as I keep putting myself in situations like this to get a big stack, I'll eventually break through and win a big tournament sometime.

Its the right place to be. Too bad it doesnt always work.