7 replies to this topic

[Abbaddabba]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is MP1 with [Qc], [Jc]. 3 folds, SB calls, BB calls.Flop: (9 SB) [Td], [Kc], [2d] (3 players)SB bets, SB calls.Turn: (6.50 BB) [Qs] (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets, SB folds.Final Pot: 7.50 BBI open raise if it's a few positions later normally. The table was unusually loose most hands, but not this one for some reason.Hawt, or what.

[Smasharoo]

Why bother listing your starting hand?

[Abbaddabba]

That's a pretty cryptic question. ...Or I'm missing something obvious.

[ahosang]

I don't know what Smasharoo means, but the way I see it, you win this hand not because of the strength of your cards, but by your betting sequence. He probably has an underpair(big cards would have paired or str8/str8 draw) and reads you for at least 1 paired overcard if not better. You didn't take the free card, so you're not on the flush draw I guess.

[jeff_536]

Smasharoo said:

Why bother listing your starting hand?

why bother posting dumbass questions?

[mrdannyg]

jeff_536 said:

Smasharoo said:

Why bother listing your starting hand?

why bother posting dumbass questions?

not surprisingly, smash is cryptically correct, and is currently enjoying watching people argue over something he knows.your starting hand does not matter because you are not ahead right now, and your may or may not have an equity advantage. you cannot say for certain this is for value or equity, as you could easily be behind or dominated here. your limp/reraise regains you the lead in the hand, which is why it is not a bad play, but your starting cards simply do not matter. i would argue that there are no hands you should limp/reraise with except in the loosest of loose games.for instance, when i used to play 2/5 at B&M's, and there would regularly be 8-9 people to a flop, and only 1/10 or so would be raised, i would limp with some sort of suited connector. if there was then a raise behind me, i would limp/reraise since i'd be getting something like 7-8:1 on my money, and with 10-Js, that was simply an equity play, and also would disguise my hand. but i think it only works in a situation like that, as an equity play. this isn't really important though, since you're not very likely to find poker games with 8-9 people to a flop any more . otherwise, except for certain extreme reads, i don't think there's any hands you should be limp/reraising with.

[Abbaddabba]

Quote

your starting hand does not matter because you are not ahead right now, and your may or may not have an equity advantage. you cannot say for certain this is for value or equity, as you could easily be behind or dominated here. your limp/reraise regains you the lead in the hand, which is why it is not a bad play, but your starting cards simply do not matter.

My intent wasnt to limpraise. My intent was to keep it multiway.When it was folded, and i had position on the field, i raised with something where the equity is probably even money.That isn't true for all hands that you open limp with at tables that are typically loose.Low to mid pocket pairs, for instance.Would that not be a situation where limp/raising would be bad (given how the hand played out preflop), but open limping is alright?

[mrdannyg]

Abbaddabba said:

Quote

your starting hand does not matter because you are not ahead right now, and your may or may not have an equity advantage. you cannot say for certain this is for value or equity, as you could easily be behind or dominated here. your limp/reraise regains you the lead in the hand, which is why it is not a bad play, but your starting cards simply do not matter.

My intent wasnt to limpraise. My intent was to keep it multiway.When it was folded, and i had position on the field, i raised with something where the equity is probably even money.That isn't true for all hands that you open limp with at tables that are typically loose.Low to mid pocket pairs, for instance.Would that not be a situation where limp/raising would be bad (given how the hand played out preflop), but open limping is alright?

to clarify, i think your open-limp was correct.you did have position, but my argument was that your equity was probably not even money. i don't know the exact odds, but i think against a normal range of hands where the small blind raises in a 3-way pot, you are dominated by many.personally i will raise first to enter with pairs as low as 77, and i don't think you limp-reraise with any pair worse than this. but if the table is very loose, and i limp with 77 or 88, and then everyone folds and the SB then raises, a reraise there for equity/lead may be correct. however i'd usually just save the raise for the flop and happily give up my pre-flop equity for the information i'll gain after the flop, which will allow me to play the rest of the hand optimally.cheers,daniel