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loose low limit cash games


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#21 SomethingWicked

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 10:02 AM

lol I've been playing online for a few yr's. However I've been playing B&M longer, and yes there are ppl who would not play online because its against the law. Maybe, they are not on this forum but it is a situation that could affect the limits this person chooses to play. So my point is valid unlike the sarcastic donks remark. Maybe I should of just said because its illegal, but then I'd have to into the fact that the really the lowest limit I could find is 2/4 and that game only starts when the game opens short handed and picks up to 3/6 or 3/6 kill. Which is why if you aren't an online player, or simply don't like online gaming, you should play more smaller buy-in tourneys to pad the br before jumping back into the live game.

#22 Actuary

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 11:52 AM

yes, you can ignore good bank roll mangement, if you have an endless source to replenish it. but then, in effect, you have an infinite bank roll.the 300 BB rule is good for players who don't want to mess with the other stash.

#23 HCarl

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 01:46 PM

Actuary said:

yes, you can ignore good bank roll mangement, if you have an endless source to replenish it.  but then, in effect, you have an infinite bank roll.the 300 BB rule is good for players who don't want to mess with the other stash.
Insisting that casual players need to have 300 BB to sit down at the lowest limit cash game is rediculous. Maybe that's why everyone here is playing micro limits. GL building the bankroll.

#24 Actuary

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 01:55 PM

HCarl said:

Actuary said:

yes, you can ignore good bank roll mangement, if you have an endless source to replenish it.  but then, in effect, you have an infinite bank roll.the 300 BB rule is good for players who don't want to mess with the other stash.
Insisting that casual players need to have 300 BB to sit down at the lowest limit cash game is rediculous. Maybe that's why everyone here is playing micro limits. GL building the bankroll.
Who's insisting?I said it's not relevant if you have another source from which to replenish it. It is relevant if you can't use your income to keep funnleing to the Friday night B&M trips. We're not disagreeing, are we?Edit: I've built from 200 to 1270, playing .5/1 and 1/2 and I"m not that good. That includes all the hands when I had no clue how to play. In about 25k hands, or 380 hours 1-tabling. Cut that in half if you can play even 2 at once.

#25 HCarl

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 02:01 PM

No we aren't disagreeing technically. It just made it sound like you were encouraging no live play without 300 BB set aside for a poker bankroll, while I believe that it's easily possible to set aside a little money for poker each month and not worry about waiting until it's reached 300 BB before starting. The 300 BB bankroll is more neccessary if you are using poker as your main source of income or if a loss will seriously set you back financially. I'm just saying that the BR isn't neccessary to play recreationaly while another job is used to supply income.I'm just trying to not discourage people from playing live if they don't have 300 BB.

#26 Actuary

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 02:20 PM

I fully agree with you.We do tend to talk in terms of an ioslated bank roll environment here, as if all of us our pro-bound or without extra income.Nonetheless certainly there is no reason someone shouldn't feel free to play live or online just for the fun of it. And maybe make some money along the way.Later, if it becomes a more regular affair, BankRoll management should be addressed. :-)

#27 HCarl

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 02:24 PM

Agreed

#28 SomethingWicked

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 03:21 PM

Actuary said:

I fully agree with you.We do tend to talk in terms of an ioslated bank roll environment here, as if all of us our pro-bound or without extra income.Nonetheless certainly there is no reason someone shouldn't feel free to play live or online just for the fun of it.  And maybe make some money along the way.Later, if it becomes a more regular affair, BankRoll management should be addressed. :-)
Well, put.

#29 scottrude

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 11:29 AM

I am blown away that this whole thread has been about poker. Nice work everyone. There are obviously some really good limit players giving advice in this thread. I have had the same run as described. Local 3-6 casino, I cant win because they chase and get lucky (My impression at the time). But after reading SSII and SSHE, I can tell you that these games are surely beatable. It seems to me as if you are either playing too many or too few hands. You can't play big cards only at this game. You get married to aces lose a few hands and you're done. You HAVE to play the hands that give you the best EV. And most importantly you have to play position on every hand. I think with this much action you need to see flops with small pairs, and suited connectors but not in early position, you dont want to call 3 more bets with 44. Also, allow yourself to fold when you think you are beat (your right you are beat). Finally, this is a quirky one, SLOW DOWN!. These tables get too fast too quickly. Pause for 5-10 seconds before calling or raising, soon the others will too. Think about each play, don't rely on emotion. Buy in for 40 BB, don't play if you are afraid of losing it. Do you ever beat this game???

#30 QMCertain

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 12:34 PM

I have just finished reading most of SSHE by Miller. I feel that I have a strong grasp of the concepts here, like raising to buy outs in big multiway pots, and tending to fold in smaller pots. However, the 2/4 game I usually play on PStars doesn't resemble the loose games described in SSHE. Where can I find these really loose games? I feel that if I was in a game where 6-8 people took a flop everytime, I'd be able to crush it. But alas, most of the pots that I play in are contested HU or 3-way. Because of this, my results are quite modest.Also, for anyone who has read SSHE, what main adjustments should I make to the book's recommended style of play for the 2/4 PStars game?

#31 HCarl

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 12:36 PM

If cardrooms are legal in your area, the lower limit live games (up to 4/8) are usually extremely loose. Most people are recreational players who are there to gamble.

#32 QMCertain

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 12:41 PM

I live in Toronto, so there aren't really any good cardrooms around that I know of. I've never played in a B&M before, but the closest one to my area that I can think of is Casino Niagara or Casino Rama.

#33 jerry441

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Posted 19 November 2005 - 01:01 PM

Please help me.What is the complete title of the book SSHE everyone is referencing?Thank you.

#34 AlanBostick

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Posted 19 November 2005 - 03:04 PM

What most of the replies are overlooking is that the game the original poster describes is a high-variance game. Another way to think about it, though, is that instead of being a wild rollercoaster of a 3-6 game, it's a very passive 12-24 game (or 15-30, if it's a four-raise max rather than three).You're playing two-card Omaha here. Every hand, even pocket aces, is a drawing hand. Play pairs, suited connectors, and suited aces. If you're playing pairs, you're hoping to flop a set. Overpairs to the board will hold up ... sometimes ... so you have to take them to the river. Otherwise, you're drawing to sets and boats, to straights, and to flushes.Because it's equivalent to a passive 12-24 game, you need a stack size correspondingly big: buy in for $300 rather than $100.Because every hand is a drawing hand, you will usually miss your draws. The key to winning in this game is to get the right price for drawing, so that when you do make your draws, it makes up for the times that you don't.If you can handle the swings, and accept that quite often your big pairs are going to be snapped off by someone who four-bet before the flop holding 10-4 offsuit, games like this can be very, very sweet.
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#35 scottrude

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Posted 20 November 2005 - 09:39 PM

Small Stakes Hold Em By Ed Miller, David Sklansky, and Mason Malmuth

#36 Mattnxtc

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 01:57 AM

HCarl said:

Actuary said:

yes, you can ignore good bank roll mangement, if you have an endless source to replenish it.  but then, in effect, you have an infinite bank roll.the 300 BB rule is good for players who don't want to mess with the other stash.
Insisting that casual players need to have 300 BB to sit down at the lowest limit cash game is rediculous. Maybe that's why everyone here is playing micro limits. GL building the bankroll.
you seem to be hitting on why the casual player goes broke...think about it. the 300BB rule is a general standard for people are wanting to be more serious and want to make sure they have enough BB to sustain variance...if you wanna get technical pros will even say 500-1000BB is what you want.

#37 iggymcfly

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 10:11 AM

AlanBostick said:

What most of the replies are overlooking is that the game the original poster describes is a high-variance game. Another way to think about it, though, is that instead of being a wild rollercoaster of a 3-6 game, it's a very passive 12-24 game (or 15-30, if it's a four-raise max rather than three).You're playing two-card Omaha here. Every hand, even pocket aces, is a drawing hand. Play pairs, suited connectors, and suited aces. If you're playing pairs, you're hoping to flop a set. Overpairs to the board will hold up ... sometimes ... so you have to take them to the river. Otherwise, you're drawing to sets and boats, to straights, and to flushes.Because it's equivalent to a passive 12-24 game, you need a stack size correspondingly big: buy in for $300 rather than $100.Because every hand is a drawing hand, you will usually miss your draws. The key to winning in this game is to get the right price for drawing, so that when you do make your draws, it makes up for the times that you don't.If you can handle the swings, and accept that quite often your big pairs are going to be snapped off by someone who four-bet before the flop holding 10-4 offsuit, games like this can be very, very sweet.
Bullsh1t. When I'm in Pullman, the only casino I can get to has one game and it's 3/6. Half the time it plays wild and wooly like that, and in about 20 or 30 sessions (averaging 5 hours each), I only lost $300 once. The one time I lost that much, it was playing 5-handed, it was getting capped preflop almost every time, and I didn't win one pot for over 2 hours. Not even throwing away winners; just went completely card-dead. Anyway, the point is, that to play a typical 3/6 game, you don't need anywhere near the bankroll requirements that people are suggesting here. Just set aside $200 for every trip, and if you win, then you already have your buy-ins for the next time.

#38 Actuary

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 10:25 AM

we already figured this out folks.BR management is critical if you don't want/cant fund your poker hobby from other sources.If you play for fun, like I bowl, then do whatever you want.geesh. The simplist threads get so long.

#39 DrZebra

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 10:33 AM

Look up Izmet Fekali's "Playing with the fish"There was a thread about this guy recently and his unorthodox approach to "no fold'em hold'em" --he rapes the game.

#40 AlanBostick

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 08:52 PM

iggymcfly said:

Bullsh1t. When I'm in Pullman, the only casino I can get to has one game and it's 3/6. Half the time it plays wild and wooly like that, and in about 20 or 30 sessions (averaging 5 hours each), I only lost $300 once. The one time I lost that much, it was playing 5-handed, it was getting capped preflop almost every time, and I didn't win one pot for over 2 hours. Not even throwing away winners; just went completely card-dead. Anyway, the point is, that to play a typical 3/6 game, you don't need anywhere near the bankroll requirements that people are suggesting here. Just set aside $200 for every trip, and if you win, then you already have your buy-ins for the next time.
Sounds to me like you're sacrificing EV to reduce variance.
Never trust a man who wears dark glasses indoors
"Could you give me a hand," he asks, and you will
Learn from experience, he means an arm and a leg.
(Stephen Scobie, "The Harder Stuff")
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