9 replies to this topic

[skoal_dip]

So I'm playing at the local club in Chinatown. The game is 1-2 NLHE min. 100 no max buy-in. The game is ultra-loose aggressive, and I'm the only real tight player at the table. However, I talk a lot of shit, I'm 10 years younger than anybody else at the table, other then my buddy, and I wear a cowboy hat :-) . Anyways, all these factors have led to me getting absolutely no respect, although on this particular night, the only 3 hands I've shown down have been a flopped straight flush, aces full, and a set of kings.So here's the hand:Guy UTG makes it 12, he's sitting on about 300. He's one of the more solid players at the table. I beat him with Kings to his Aces all-in before the flop earlier so I think he might be coming after me a bit. But I give him credit here for a good hand, 10 10-AA or AK or maybe AQ.I look down at two jacks, and seriously consider re-raising. Against most players here, I would given that is likely the best hand, but this time, I just call and take a flop. One other loose passive player calls in the CO. I have 230 here btw.The flop comes 78J, rainbow. At this point, I like my hand, but I'm not in love with it. The guy in the CO scares me more then anything. So UTG bets out 15 into the 37 pot, I contemplate just smooth calling, but want to price out any draws and know the CO will call with a gutshot here. So I raise it to 40 total. CO folds and UTG doesn't look to happy but calls quickly. Pot's 117.The turn is a 10, but still with no flush draws. He checks, and I check it right back, wanting him to think I'm just as scared of the straight as he is. The river is a queen, and I'm afraid that he may have made a set. He checks it to me again, but I decide he just has a small pair and make a small value bet of 25....I think I played this hand OK, but I'm not sure about my turn and river play. Please give your thoughts on each streets and let me know if you have any more questions about the hand in all.

[swass]

I like the play up until the turn. Why do you want him to think you are scared of the straight? If you think you were ahead on the flop, you are probably still ahead on the turn. The only hand he could have that should worry you is 99. So I bet the turn too. Maybe $60ish.The river card is terrible. Given that you just checked the turn, you gave him a free card that helps QQ, and most likely AK. The value bet on the river appears weak and is asking to be reraised. Then what do you do?Given how you played the hand, I would check behind. Only hand calling you down now has you beat (except for maybe AQ). Bet the turn and take it down then.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

skoal_dip said:

So I'm playing at the local club in Chinatown. The game is 1-2 NLHE min. 100 no max buy-in. The game is ultra-loose aggressive, and I'm the only real tight player at the table. However, I talk a lot of censored, I'm 10 years younger than anybody else at the table, other then my buddy, and I wear a cowboy hat :-) . Anyways, all these factors have led to me getting absolutely no respect, although on this particular night, the only 3 hands I've shown down have been a flopped straight flush, aces full, and a set of kings.I get erections thinking about 1/2 no-max loose/aggressive games.So here's the hand:Guy UTG makes it 12, he's sitting on about 300. He's one of the more solid players at the table. I beat him with Kings to his Aces all-in before the flop earlier so I think he might be coming after me a bit. But I give him credit here for a good hand, 10 10-AA or AK or maybe AQ.I look down at two jacks, and seriously consider re-raising. Against most players here, I would given that is likely the best hand, but this time, I just call and take a flop. One other loose passive player calls in the CO. I have 230 here btw.Here you need to think of what are the advantages and disadvantages of re-raising.The flop comes 78J, rainbow. At this point, I like my hand, but I'm not in love with it. The guy in the CO scares me more then anything. So UTG bets out 15 into the 37 pot, I contemplate just smooth calling, but want to price out any draws and know the CO will call with a gutshot here. So I raise it to 40 total. CO folds and UTG doesn't look to happy but calls quickly.  Pot's 117.Top set!  Bueno.  We want the board to pair so we have the awesomest 2nd place hand we can have.  Since we want the board to pair, that means we need to think of what can beat us (straight or flush w/out the board pairing).  That means 9T would suck, but we have outs on it right now, which is a good reason to bet.  Plus value, plus implied, plus information, I'm thinking the flop needs a bigger bet.  Since you raise and we got the CO to fold, what does it tell you that UTG looks unhappy and called?The turn is a 10, but still with no flush draws. He checks, and I check it right back, wanting him to think I'm just as scared of the straight as he is.Very bad card for us.  Maybe you could BET here to find out more?  If he check/raises AND we put him on a 9, then the decision to call or not is based on the pot odds of hitting the river to his check/raise.  The river is a queen, and I'm afraid that he may have made a set. He checks it to me again, but I decide he just has a small pair and make a small value bet of 25....Very VERY bad card for us.  More straights beat us now and we have no more outs to fill up.  If he fires a huge bet out here AND we think he could have a straight we shouldn't call.I think I played this hand OK, but I'm not sure about my turn and river play. Please give your thoughts on each streets and let me know if you have any more questions about the hand in all.

Some decisions are close, and some are not close. I think you should have bet more on the flop, and re-evaluate how you play JJ preflop.

[The Bwaves]

If you want a strong TAG image, you have to bet this turn card. I would say a little less than the pot. When you bet around the size of the pot it doesn't lay your opponents to call if they have a draw.You said your one of the tight/agressive players at the table so be agressive. If he hits his outs it's okay, at least you have your image and hopefully after you scoop some decent pots you'll earn the respect your looking for.B&M are the best.

[benhoug]

skoal_dip said:

He checks it to me again, but I decide he just has a small pair and make a small value bet of 25....

I absolutely HATE this type of bet. Why on earth would you bet $25 into a $117 pot on the end??? You've either got to check behind him, or bet like you've got a hand. The only thing that bet can achieve is allow him to make a play on you by raising and get you to lay down a winner. By the end this board is terrribly scary, so why are we making such a weak value bet???

[macphec]

benhoug said:

skoal_dip said:

He checks it to me again, but I decide he just has a small pair and make a small value bet of 25....

I absolutely HATE this type of bet. Why on earth would you bet $25 into a $117 pot on the end??? You've either got to check behind him, or bet like you've got a hand. The only thing that bet can achieve is allow him to make a play on you by raising and get you to lay down a winner. By the end this board is terrribly scary, so why are we making such a weak value bet???

I 100% agree w Ben here. PLEASE check and get a free show down.PLEASE bet the turn aggressively

[exdubliner]

I'm a big fan of keeping the pressure on your opponent. If you raise him on the flop, don't all of a sudden weaken on the turn. With your analysis of how he plays, you know that 10 must not have helped him very much, so come out with a bet of maybe $80-$90 on the turn.

[skoal_dip]

OK, so the replies I got have pretty much confirmed my suspicions that I completely donked up the later stages of the hand. I'll just give my reasoning behind my turn and river play.On the turn, I was very confident he didn't have a straight, he checked because he was scared of it. I wanted to show him I didn't have it either, because I figured he'd pay me off with a pair on the river. I figured he'd fold to a big bet on this street.On the river, at this point, he had given up with the hand, I didn't give him Ace King, he wouldn't have called the flop bet with it. I thought he would bet a set of queens here as well. The players in the game DO NOT check raise, although my bet was opening myself up to a big one.Does this make any sense, or did I really screw up?

[exdubliner]

skoal_dip said:

OK, so the replies I got have pretty much confirmed my suspicions that I completely donked up the later stages of the hand. I'll just give my reasoning behind my turn and river play.On the turn, I was very confident he didn't have a straight, he checked because he was scared of it. I wanted to show him I didn't have it either, because I figured he'd pay me off with a pair on the river. I figured he'd fold to a big bet on this street.On the river, at this point, he had given up with the hand, I didn't give him Ace King, he wouldn't have called the flop bet with it. I thought he would bet a set of queens here as well. The players in the game DO NOT check raise, although my bet was opening myself up to a big one.Does this make any sense, or did I really screw up?

I really don't have a problem with the river bet. It seems just strange enough that the guy will probably pay you off because he's wondering what the hell you have with the strange post-flop play. Checking the river is a safe and desirable play though, because of those scare cards.I also understand your reasoning that you want to show him, "look, I don't have a straight either" on the turn. However, you have to know that your check on the turn will almost never induce a river bet after you showed so much strength on the flop unless he catches a river card that has you beat. Flop play was good, turn play was awful, river play was decent. Sure it looks weak, but in my opinion you are certain that you have him beat right now. Plus these players don't check/raise you as you say.

[skoal_dip]

exdubliner said:

skoal_dip said:

OK, so the replies I got have pretty much confirmed my suspicions that I completely donked up the later stages of the hand. I'll just give my reasoning behind my turn and river play.On the turn, I was very confident he didn't have a straight, he checked because he was scared of it. I wanted to show him I didn't have it either, because I figured he'd pay me off with a pair on the river. I figured he'd fold to a big bet on this street.On the river, at this point, he had given up with the hand, I didn't give him Ace King, he wouldn't have called the flop bet with it. I thought he would bet a set of queens here as well. The players in the game DO NOT check raise, although my bet was opening myself up to a big one.Does this make any sense, or did I really screw up?

I really don't have a problem with the river bet. It seems just strange enough that the guy will probably pay you off because he's wondering what the hell you have with the strange post-flop play. Checking the river is a safe and desirable play though, because of those scare cards.I also understand your reasoning that you want to show him, "look, I don't have a straight either" on the turn. However, you have to know that your check on the turn will almost never induce a river bet after you showed so much strength on the flop unless he catches a river card that has you beat. Flop play was good, turn play was awful, river play was decent. Sure it looks weak, but in my opinion you are certain that you have him beat right now. Plus these players don't check/raise you as you say.

Good post, I'll definitely rethink this sort of situation again. And for all you guys that have been dying to find out what happened on the river after my bet, I said, I'll make it cheap so you can see my straight, he said, "this might be a really bad call" and showed pocket tens for a set of tens.