6 replies to this topic

[Leedspokerguru]

First off just want to say high to the community. Have been reading the posts for some time but decided to add my voice to a few things and pick you collective brains. Ok first off. Where do you guys draw the line in a full ring cash game with implied odds and calling raises that are a little too big. If a situation arises where a call isn't mathematically correct but you know when you hit you can take all the checks from someones stack. Personally I ususally use it on the small stacks when chasing a flush or straight. Might be getting as little as 1.5/1 but will call for the chase because I've got a strong feeling that I can usually take him for the rest of his small stack afterall if they show some strength in betting into the pot they are less likely to fold when I hit. Anyways I was playing in a pretty fast game the other day with some big raises going on and some pretty outrageous bluffs. At times I thought I was calling too much with J 10 suited to try connect on the turn or river and had to fold to the really big bets. On the other hand when I did catch I mopped up the extra bets from the bluffers. Where do you guys stand/what are your opinions on this????

[Leedspokerguru]

This is no limit holdem by the way

[Awful]

Remember that the size of the oppnent's stack needs to compensate the overlay you give when chasing. He needs to have 2x the size of the pot left (at the time you decide to call) that you know you can see in the middle. That's kinda tough to do. Don't take 1.5-1 on a flush draw for implied odds too often, that's tough to swing. Implied odds is more a tool for closer decisions, and in NL it's a tool for flopping sets and making straights mostly, disguised hands really help get someone's stack in there. Also, flush draws are pretty obvious. Don't count on anything more than 1 average bet; your raise is less likely to be looked up if your opponent is aware.

[randomization]

Part of this depends on how observant your opponents are. If you're playing against observant people, you want to take slightly worse odds so you can occasionally bluff in hands where the flush card gets there and you've got a different hand. Against observant players, if you never call a hand with moderately poor odds, you're simply giving away too much information. The other factor is table image: if players think you're liable to bluff with a three-flush on the board, you're getting implied odds. So if players are inclined to call to keep you honest, you can accept worse odds. Odds are that you're not playing against people who think at that level though. Against ordinary players, you want to hew to the odds pretty carefully unless you've observed this player to be capable of losing a lot of money on the river against a flush. Since many players are capable of making a big laydown only when there's a flush threat, implied odds with a flush draw are actually pretty weak.

[Leedspokerguru]

Randomization you touched on what I meant, I guess I just explained it wrongly. But you knwo when you sitting down at a low No limit cash game .5/1 or 1/2 (i find these much softer than most) and you get people buy in for 20 - 25 $, theres seems to be a pattern that one loses his stack very quickly and is replaced by another. You guys must notice this. But these small stacks you know when they raise they have Ax or 10 10. And when they do raise you just know know they ain't putting it down. In that case I do call with the worst(against the maths) of it becuase when I hit I take the lot. I find these small stacks I win the most from because they're sitting down to gamble. But with larger stacks they can play abit and tend to be more oberservant and wery about a dangerous board. I guess its moving more away from playing the maths to playing the opponent so in that case how far do you go from the solid maths base? Calling a pot size bet of 5 - 6 wanting a flush or straight card to take him for the other $20 or so. Appreciate the responses so far.

[Leedspokerguru]

god I type like a muppet when I'm in a rush. Tried to edit some sp's but couldn't. Ina ruish though

[MrConceit]

In general doing what you're talking about is a lot easier in cash games imo. In tourneys (unless you're already at the very big stack compared to blinds point) you usually don't have enough chips to take the worst of it like you're describing. I am speaking mostly of online tournaments here btw, where you only get 1-1.5k chips usually and blinds go up pretty fast.Also, I tend to think the opposite of what you do in terms of small stacks vs large stacks. Unless they are very small. I want some potential good payout if I hit my draw, I want his stack to be deep. And I second the general consensus that flushes are very obvious when you hit. So only bad (or desperate) players tend to pay off a large bet or allin by you if the flush hits.A straight draw (especially double gutshot) or something like that is much better for this purpose. Nobody sees that when it hits compared to a flush draw.