69 replies to this topic

[Mattnxtc]

So after taking bad beat after bad beat i decided to pull my money...I really try and believe that online poker isnt rigged but i after the last 2 days i dont know... I probably lost 15 times to guys with 3 outs or less... Had people catch ridiculous hands that took runner runners that would make pros sick. People say o well Stars has "action" pots and my answer is that doesnt that make it rigged? Now though stars wouldnt care who won the hand, wouldnt they want action? doesnt that action lead to more money for them in the rake? Well maybe its just me venting b/c for 2 days straight when i had the better hand about 75% of the time goign into the river then so be it but I am starting to be a true believer of that

[kzammmm]

1st soory about my english 2nd i closed pokerstars 3 times i keep trying to play S&G 11,22,33 and multy (sorry no cash game ) and it was bad i keep records and lost 63% after i was ahead on the flop ,i even send them an email and they said Blah Blah Blah .3 now i pllay multy at Party (just finished6th in 100 buy in 2600 woho)&play S&G @ fulltilt ( i hat S&G @ Party they only give 800chips when blinds at 200 u only have 1 move all in ) so i a gree with i can take bad beat but i hate dumb beat ---------> when some on call ur all oin with bottom pair and catch trips or 2 pair sht like that . by the way i was chip leader with 11 to go had 160k avg was 40k and had 2 bad beat to get me down to 44k suck bit thats poker i'll take my 2600 -109 buy in = 2491 NICE 1 DAY IT GOING TO BE 240000

[kzammmm]

okokok i know its sorry not soory i'm still high from the 2600 lol

[Scott31]

I don't believe it's rigged either. Although it's hard to argue with a site's motive for action. I've heard of some sites being shut down for having a flush ratio too high (don't ask which, just heard it). I play on UB and I can tell you the amount of times I see Kings vs. Aces would knock your socks off. That's probably my biggest complaint online. Yes, you see more hands and the crazy beats seem to stand out more than your typical hand. The only thing I think is fishy is the giant PPs vs each other. That hardly ever happens in my live games but is a common occurence online.

[PrtyPSux]

I played 18 hrs in one day at a casino and only saw 2 bad beats one was aces full of 7s vs quad 7s (the guy had K7 and there were 3 7's on the board) didnt win the bad beat for some technicality ...and my aces got beat by a jack 2...both were from people who called way too many flops,.. now, I used to believe that online poker was rigged and Im still doubtful about its total "Randomness" (creating large pots makes damn good sense to me) but I think a big part of why there is so many bad beats is not only because you play way more hands,,, but because there are so many idiots playing online that make calls that they shouldnt make like with 4 outs or open ended str8 draws etc...all these guys do it so thats where the bad beats come from ,, no bad beat comes from a good call... and the pros usually dont make bad calls thats why you wont see them as much on tv ,,, I guarantee you that if you play pros online you probably would see less badbeats. PS Im not defending online poker and saying it is the same as real life cuz its not ,,but ever since I stopped playing at partypoker I have seen much less miracle beats so I understand where other people come from when they defend online poker,

[piki]

Really, you should be happy if people hit you with a runner-runner beats. It means they can't play (ie. they're gambling) and they will pay you off when you hit the nuts or when they don't make that miracle suckout. It's painful sometimes, but will win you lots $$$ in the long run. Just put your money in when you have the best of it. It ain't rigged. Aces will lose at least 50% (so nothing strange if they lose 4 times in a row, and you had to see few thousands of hands to actually get them - resulting in posts 'my aces never win...') in micro limit games, but you get 5-times the money out of them when you win.Good luck!

[The Sheriff JBJ]

PrtyPSux said:

I played 18 hrs in one day at a casino and only saw 2 bad beats one was aces full of 7s vs quad 7s (the guy had K7 and there were 3 7's on the board)  didnt win the bad beat for some technicality ...and my aces got beat by a jack 2...both were from people who called way too many flops,.. now, I used to believe that online poker was rigged and Im still doubtful about its total "Randomness" (creating large pots makes damn good sense to me)  but I think a big part of why there is so many bad beats is not only because you play way more hands,,, but because  there are so many idiots playing online that  make calls that they shouldnt make like with 4 outs or open ended str8 draws etc...all these guys do it  so thats where the bad beats come from ,, no bad beat comes from a good call... and the pros usually dont make bad calls thats why you wont see them as much on tv ,,, I guarantee you that if you play pros online you probably would see less badbeats.  PS Im not defending online poker and saying it is the same as real life cuz its not ,,but ever since I stopped playing at partypoker I have seen much less miracle beats  so I understand where other people come from when they defend online poker,

Is this what drives the likes of Phil Hellmuth mad? And the old school players who have not adapted to the new on-line boom style?With more and more on-line players winning seats and expenses to WTP & WSOP events, they go with what they know. Many times this could be the first time they have played live. And they are just so difficult to read on.The board is:K 7 5 J Your holding K K your oppent checks then you raise he smooth calls.He checks it to you again you raise more again he smooth calls.So what do you put the avergae on-line player on here. My guess would be either 2 pair K's + J's. Not trips as he would be check raising. A K and I feel there would have been more pre flop action.Last check to me, I raise. He goes all in. I call. Flip em' over. More often than not he's on a diamond draw.Even if I go all in on the turn. This guy not putting his hand down. So many on-line players play this way. Especially in tournament play. The more players who do this the more who hit their cards.So how do you combat this?Personally I dont want to get all my chips in with this hand if its tournament play as it will hit me hard. Small raises to get some value and take it to the river. And if my hands still holding up fantastic. Like a recent post on playing trips. The ultimate outcome is that the draw for my oppent makes his hand but also pairs the board for my boat.Cash game, I think you can play the odds and take the risk that they dont make their draw as over a period of time its the right play and you'll make your money.The final question I would raise in this thread is are on-line players more prepared to gamble?

[Smasharoo]

So after taking bad beat after bad beat i decided to pull my money...I really try and believe that online poker isnt rigged but i after the last 2 days i dont know... I probably lost 15 times to guys with 3 outs or less... Had people catch ridiculous hands that took runner runners that would make pros sick. People say o well Stars has "action" pots and my answer is that doesnt that make it rigged? Now though stars wouldnt care who won the hand, wouldnt they want action? doesnt that action lead to more money for them in the rake? Well maybe its just me venting b/c for 2 days straight when i had the better hand about 75% of the time goign into the river then so be it but I am starting to be a true believer of thatI destroy the looses, silliest, microlimit games on stats daily. Must be rigged just for me.

[Vensula]

i was at the casino fri night, in 1 hour i had 6 full houses and not one of them held up, also not one was beat by me having "the small end" of the boat. what i mean is my 6's full of 7's were not beat but 7's full 6's. every single one was beat by a higher pocket pair that hit. it's jsut a streak. do i even considor the casino is rigged? nope... tha's just poker, online or B&M it happens.

[MDXS]

From the opposite camp...I just withdrew from my Poker Stars account for the first time. Since then I went on one incredible run of cards and am on my biggest rush since I started playing. Heh...maybe they're afraid that they'll lose my business.

[redfish]

x3000gtx said:

its not rigged man. you see so many more hands online than you do in real life. thats why it seems like bad beats happen more often.

Agreed. But the sites could easily make customers feel a whole lot better by providing statistics on everything, which none do as far as I know. They simply assure you that they are regulated, the card generators are random, and well... just trust us :roll: .For example, Party Poker is regulated by the Government of Gibraltar - seriously. Doesn't that make sense, my understanding is they operate from an indian reservation in Canada but are regulated by the Government of Gibraltar - strange.

[mark33f]

not to sound like a conspiracy theorist but if you were involved in the programming of an online sight whose to say you cant rigg/program or whatever so you get a little but luckier than other players???

[NYIsles]

I'm always amazed when people talk about online sites being rigged.Unless I'm sadly mistaken, the reputable sites are all audited on a regular basis (not only in terms of accounting, but software as well) by independent consulting fims.If the software was rigged, a site wouldn't be given a clean bill of health by its independent auditor.If you have any doubts a to the legitimacy of your site's software, just explore the help files to detemine who does the auditing. If you can't find it, send an e-mail to the help desk and ask them to e-mail the info directly. They'll be glad to do it...

[redfish]

NYIsles said:

I'm always amazed when people talk about online sites being rigged.Unless I'm sadly mistaken, the reputable sites are all audited on a regular basis (not only in terms of accounting, but software as well) by independent consulting fims.If the software was rigged, a site wouldn't be given a clean bill of health by its independent auditor.If you have any doubts a to the legitimacy of your site's software, just explore the help files to detemine who does the auditing. If you can't find it, send an e-mail to the help desk and ask them to e-mail the info directly. They'll be glad to do it...

NY, like you I am amazed. But it's that some people like you are soooo naive . Are you kidding me about the auditing? I would bet my left nut that most of these "independent" auditors have only one major client and that would be the poker site they are "auditing". My other guess is that the "independent" auditor was formed by the site themselves, don't be so naive.

[MrConceit]

redfish said:

x3000gtx said:

its not rigged man. you see so many more hands online than you do in real life. thats why it seems like bad beats happen more often.

Agreed. But the sites could easily make customers feel a whole lot better by providing statistics on everything, which none do as far as I know. They simply assure you that they are regulated, the card generators are random, and well... just trust us :roll: .For example, Party Poker is regulated by the Government of Gibraltar - seriously. Doesn't that make sense, my understanding is they operate from an indian reservation in Canada but are regulated by the Government of Gibraltar - strange.

What kind of stats are you looking for? As I recall pokerroom.com offers tons of stats. And there are lots of websites that do 3rd party stats. And as for your assertion that they're regulated by companies they themselves formed is rather unfounded by stuff I've read in the past.But me telling you this will mean nothing to you if you're convinced they're rigged. You'll just call me naive.

[NUTTYMATT]

UB is the worst in my opinion. there is always big pocket pair vs big pocket pair and even sometimes 3 or 4 pocket pairs against each other. Their is always a staight and or flush possible. The cards seem to stick together. Im not saying i think UB is rigged but i am saying their is something funny about their software. Ive played over 900 hours at ub and my friends have played even more and we have all noticed this. I play in casinos and the cards are more random and u dont get the same type of flop every second hand and u dont see 3 people with pocket pairs all the time. And its not because their is more hands per hour online.

[NYIsles]

NY, like you I am amazed. But it's that some people like you are soooo naive . Are you kidding me about the auditing? I would bet my left nut that most of these "independent" auditors have only one major client and that would be the poker site they are "auditing". My other guess is that the "independent" auditor was formed by the site themselves, don't be so naive.LOL... but, umm, no...Paradise Poker, for example, has its shuffling algorithms regularly audited by PricewaterhouseCoopers. If you honestly think that a major consulting firm is going to screw around with its results, well... believe me, it's not in their interest to do so.Remember Andersen Consulting?

[UglyJimStudly]

Mattnxtc said:

Had people catch ridiculous hands that took runner runners that would make pros sick. People say o well Stars has "action" pots and my answer is that doesnt that make it rigged?

This past weekend, I played about nine hours of poker over two days. At least seven times, I lost to people who had four outs or less, including three runner-runner hands. This was down at my local casino, good old fashioned B&M play... I probably played no more than 400 hands. Online, you can pretty easily see that many hands in four hours, and obviously a lot less if you're multitabling.So no, I don't think any online sites are rigged to have "action pots", any more than my local casino is. I think what happens is that's a fairly normal number of bad beats in low-limit games, but people remember those more strongly when they lose. I ended up ahead by a little over 40 big bets despite those heartbreakers, so it's easier for me to be philosophical about it, but the simple fact is that bad players chase longshot hands (often without realizing they're longshots). And every now and then, they hit - that's what keeps 'em coming back. You either need to figure out how to deal with the inevitable variance that creates, or find games with no bad players. Since I'm in the camp that believes it's easier to beat bad players than good players, I recommend the former.

[Kendren]

NUTTYMATT said:

UB is the worst in my opinion. there is always big pocket pair vs big pocket pair and even sometimes 3 or 4 pocket pairs against each other. Their is always a staight and or flush possible. The cards seem to stick together. Im not saying i think UB is rigged but i am saying their is something funny about their software. Ive played over 900 hours at ub and my friends have played even more and we have all noticed this. I play in casinos and the cards are more random and u dont get the same type of flop every second hand and u dont see 3 people with pocket pairs all the time. And its not because their is more hands per hour online.

Here's a thought. Go grab a deck of cards in your house. Shuffle it. Deal out a 10 handed table's worth of cards, all face up. See how many times in say... 30 hands (trynig to keep it to a decent time frame, that's about an hour and a half) that you get mulitple pocket pairs. I've been doing this about a month now, have over 400 hands logged, and out of 433 hands, 98 have had PP... and of those 98, *61* have had other pairs in there too. One hand I dealt had AA, QQ, 88, 66, and 33 all in the same hand. (Incidentally, AA held up in that) Deal the community cards too, and notice how many time a POSSIBLE straight draw comes up... usually 80% of the time. Just do a little statistical analysis of your own.