13 replies to this topic

[brando]

$50 NL fullUTG $79Hero $44Read: UTG was fairly straight forward. He would raise 99-AA, probably any 2 suited broadways, and down to ATos.Hero A K UTG raises to $1.50, 2 foldsFLOP 4 7 K ($5.25)UTG bets $3TURN Q ($21.25)UTG bets $2.5Here I'm fairly sure he has a K at worst...(after he called the raise)River 2 ($35.25)UTG checksDo I value bet? I don't want to get raised off the hand

[pokerplayer24]

If utg started the hand with 17.35 then he is all in on the turn.I'm raising this more on the turn if hes deeper stacked.

[brando]

Fixed it, looked at the wrong stack

[pokerplayer24]

I'm probly making this 15 on the turn and checking behind on the river unimproved.

[allinbluff35]

check behind

[brando]

allinbluff35 said:

check behind

you like the rest?

[allinbluff35]

brando said:

allinbluff35 said:

check behind

you like the rest?

the villain chose a strange line, bet call, bet call, check which seems to me that you're beating, in most instances you can fold the turn if you're reraised and I'll usually check behind here 90% of the time because of the weird line and it's a free showdown. I play it the same most likely though.

[pokerplayer24]

No one else raises more on the turn?

[allinbluff35]

pokerplayer24 said:

No one else raises more on the turn?

the villain bet a very small amount so to find out where we're at we can safely raise 1/3-1/2 the pot to find out where we are at on the turn reevaluate on the river depending on his actions.

[brando]

My thinking behind the size of the raise was that it was part value/allowed me to not make myself feel committed/I'd be able to fold if he came over the top.Not sure if that reasoning is best/right, but it seemed like it at the time. AllInBluff do you like the thinking behind that size raise?

[Davin]

another reason to raise more on the turn is so you'd be more inclined to just check down the river since the pot is now nice sized. if you only raise to 8 on that turn, you may feel obligated to bet the river since you'd feel that you havent extracted maximum value from ak. if you had raised to say $20, then that's $24 in the pot on the river, so you'd be more than happy to just check it for the free showdown.

[terrellk11]

I've seen a lot of players make this type of bet/call play when they are drawing to a flush or open-ended straight as a modified free card play. With two opponents on the flop (assuming he has a flush draw), his bet (1) puts him in the driver's seat, (2) builds a pot if he hits his hand, and (3) disguises the fact that he's playing a draw so that you are less likely to think he's got the flush if it hits. When one folds, the other raises, and his flush card doesn't hit the turn, he has to play slightly more defensively. However, he can't just check-call or he runs the risk of you making a bet that will price him off his draw. For example, if you make a 1/2 pot bet, he would only be getting 3-1 on a hand when the odds against him hitting are 4-1, which makes it a mistake for him to call unless he is convinced he can make that up on the river if he hits. To avoid this problem, some players will make a bet on the turn like he did to slow you down and keep you from pricing him out of chasing his draw. He makes a negligible bet of about 1/9 the pot. While the bet has no real chance of winning him the pot there, it slowed you down. Rather than making a "standard" raise of 1/2 to 2/3 the pot, you made a much smaller raise based on his bet. The primary problem that I see with only raising to 8 on the turn is that you are giving him odds to call if he's drawing to a stronger hand. With his bet and your raise, the pot is up to $31.75 and it's only 5.50 to him, which equates to about 6-1 pot odds plus any money he can squeeze out of you on the river if he hits. If he's drawing to a flush (very possible) or straight (unlikely), he's getting great odds to see the river and should absolutely try to suck out on you. I agree with pokerplayer24 that you should have raised more on the turn to price out a draw. If you raise him half to two-thirds the pot, he's making a mistake if he chases that draw. With $23.75 in the pot after his bet, I'd make it another $15 to see the river. If he calls, he's getting less than 3-1 odds when the odds are 4-1 against him hitting his draw. Given the way the hand played out, there is a very good chance that he was playing a flush draw and made his hand on the river. I'd check behind rather than risk running into a check-raise that would put you to a very difficult decision.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

Raise the flop more... like... betting the actual pot.$3 at $5.25. A pot raise is (5.25+3) + (your 3 from the call) = 11.25 total.Not 3 + 5.25 = raise to 8. BAD.Raising JUST to 8 means...a) you're screaming that you have a king.b) you're pricing in the bettor to call you with anything he has that he might be betting.c) THEREFORE you get outdrawn more in no limit.Lots of turn cards can be bad, you're getting paid if you've got someone on kicker problems. We don't want draws to stick around. Isolate! Raise more.

[violaman]

raise more on the flop and turn are what I'm hearing. If he is on a draw you cannot afford the risk of giving him the odds to pick you off. If he calls pot raises of his weak leads on the turn and river and hits it then power to him. I think value betting on this particular river is too risky because the risk of getting re-popped is very real. Just check it down and hope you have the best hand.