31 replies to this topic

[Gallo]

WTF is up with the minimu raises, people calling with Ace/rag, K/rag/ and Q/rag to a raise?!? This has been happening alot. And it's just driving me nuts. I'm gonna lay off playing online poker for a little while or at least just play play chips because this is just ugly. It's ridiculous. I can take the swings, but just the donkey play is killing me.Just venting.Flame away fockers!!

[joball33]

I've seen a lot more of these things lately as well.The only thing that I can think of is with the Main Event coverage on ESPN, more people are starting to play and don't know what they are doing. Not always a bad thing though :wink:

[acesfullmike]

dont we generally want people calling raises with dominated hands?

[borinka99]

In the long run, you want those calls, it's something we all learn. It's just the individual "bad beat" hands that piss you off and you have to be able to deal with it w/o tilting off $$ and eventually the ones that make those calls will pay you off big time.As for the min-raises in NL, I hate those as much as anyone, they are so pointless, but you can use that to your advantage (odds) and just enjoy it when you bust some fool who had aces and min raised

[justblaze]

focker is a great word.

[Gallo]

acesfullmike said:

dont we generally want people calling raises with dominated hands?

Yes we do, but it sucks when they keep hitting and hitting and hitting and hitting and hitting and I keep missing and missing and missing and missing and missing. It makes me want to only raise with just AA or KK, I don't even want to raise with QQ as someone with A/rag will certainly hit. Like I said, it's been bad the past week and it's just driving me nuts so I'm just stepping away for a few weeks from online play. I mean most of these guys don't even understand sometimes that they could actually be beaten.I was in an SNG earlier today, I raise about 4 times the BB with AQs from UTG, the SB calls, flop is 8/10/4, he bets about half the pot, I call, K comes out on turn he checks I bet about 3/4 of the pot which leaves me with about 700 and he calls leaving him with almost the same, river comes blank I put him all in and he calls with 8/6 off. Yeah, I know I had nothing, but c'mon, pair of 8s? Who knows maybe I played it wrong but it still ticked me off because crap like that has been consistently happening.

[sirch1]

There is only point in time where i like and actually use the mimum raise and that is real late in a tourney wehre the blinds are big in comparison to chip stacks and a minimum bet isactually enough to make people fold.

[Oziumrules]

Too many people watching Gus Hanson play weak hands and winning.

[TeeSludge]

Gallo said:

acesfullmike said:

dont we generally want people calling raises with dominated hands?

Yes we do, but it sucks when they keep hitting and hitting and hitting and hitting and hitting and I keep missing and missing and missing and missing and missing. It makes me want to only raise with just AA or KK, I don't even want to raise with QQ as someone with A/rag will certainly hit. Like I said, it's been bad the past week and it's just driving me nuts so I'm just stepping away for a few weeks from online play. I mean most of these guys don't even understand sometimes that they could actually be beaten.I was in an SNG earlier today, I raise about 4 times the BB with AQs from UTG, the SB calls, flop is 8/10/4, he bets about half the pot, I call, K comes out on turn he checks I bet about 3/4 of the pot which leaves me with about 700 and he calls leaving him with almost the same, river comes blank I put him all in and he calls with 8/6 off. Yeah, I know I had nothing, but c'mon, pair of 8s? Who knows maybe I played it wrong but it still ticked me off because crap like that has been consistently happening.

Poor post flop play on your part. Stop bluffing all your chips away.

[Stylin_Fish]

I was in a SNG two days ago. Blinds were 10-20.There were like 8 limpers(i folded UTG) and then the BB minimum raise, everyone called, the button minimum raised, the BB re minimum raised, everybody calls, button reminimum raises, everone calls.Flop comes - All ragsBB bets out 500, everyone folds to the button who goes all in, BB calls.BB has QQButton has K8King on the river wins it for the Button.

[rwood]

you want these people doing this first of all...second of all, on that first hand posted about the AQs, the play of that hand was horrendous. i think people calling with Ax Kx Qx isnt your problem, its that you dont know how to play. cheers. ryan.

[Gallo]

rwood said:

you want these people doing this first of all...second of all, on that first hand posted about the AQs, the play of that hand was horrendous. i think people calling with Ax Kx Qx isnt your problem, its that you dont know how to play. cheers. ryan.

How should I have played that? Folded to his initial bet?

[rwood]

Quote

Gallo Posted: Friday, November 4th, 2005 12:29 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- rwood wrote: you want these people doing this first of all... second of all, on that first hand posted about the AQs, the play of that hand was horrendous. i think people calling with Ax Kx Qx isnt your problem, its that you dont know how to play. cheers. ryan. How should I have played that? Folded to his initial bet?

I raise about 4 times the BB with AQs from UTG, the SB calls, flop is 8/10/4, he bets about half the pot, I call, raise or fold, i dont like losing the lead in NL personally(most of the time), anyways calling here is horrible, it takes away one of your options of winning the pot (a fold)K comes out on turn he checks I bet about 3/4 of the pot which leaves me with about 700 OK i dont mind the bluff here, running it has more to do with the type of read you have on the playerand he calls leaving him with almost the same, river comes blank I put him all in WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING HERE!?!?! he called you on the turn, so you shut down, and you definitely do not push all in. you have position, cut your losses and check it. when he calls off this many chips already, you are not going to push the fish off his hand. and he calls with 8/6 off. live and learn, what you need to see here is these players are going to call you down when you have nothing, and when you have the nuts, so wait till you have a good made hand. low limit is very easy, push your equity when you have it, dont when you dont! dont bluff off your entire stack to a donk that wont fold. cheers. ryan.

[-caveman-]

justblaze said:

focker is a great word.

Unless your first name is Gayland

[Loismustdie]

Gallo said:

WTF is up with the minimu raises, people calling with Ace/rag, K/rag/ and Q/rag to a raise?!? This has been happening alot. And it's just driving me nuts. I'm gonna lay off playing online poker for a little while or at least just play play chips because this is just ugly. It's ridiculous. I can take the swings, but just the donkey play is killing me.Just venting.Flame away fockers!!

Learn to play your opponents, not just the cards- I would certainly know how to play you.

[acesfullmike]

i agree, too many people see gus and sammy farha playing crap hands. most dont realize that these two are a couple of the best post-flop players in the world which allows them to get into so many pots and make the excellent reads to push with equity or when they sense weakness. At the low limits i play, i just push till i sense strength. with some of the passive fish, it can just be calling the turn. i play limit btw.

[Painter567]

-caveman- said:

justblaze said:

focker is a great word.

Unless your first name is Gaylord

FYP

[macphec]

Playing $1 $2 NL on Party a lot lately and the play is terrible.min raising, people with VPIP > %95. All in w a flush draw etc.I'm rich Beotch

[Devilkin]

rwood said:

Quote

Gallo Posted: Friday, November 4th, 2005 12:29 Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- rwood wrote: you want these people doing this first of all... second of all, on that first hand posted about the AQs, the play of that hand was horrendous. i think people calling with Ax Kx Qx isnt your problem, its that you dont know how to play. cheers. ryan. How should I have played that? Folded to his initial bet?

I raise about 4 times the BB with AQs from UTG, the SB calls, flop is 8/10/4, he bets about half the pot, I call, raise or fold, i dont like losing the lead in NL personally(most of the time), anyways calling here is horrible, it takes away one of your options of winning the pot (a fold)K comes out on turn he checks I bet about 3/4 of the pot which leaves me with about 700 OK i dont mind the bluff here, running it has more to do with the type of read you have on the playerand he calls leaving him with almost the same, river comes blank I put him all in WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING HERE!?!?! he called you on the turn, so you shut down, and you definitely do not push all in. you have position, cut your losses and check it. when he calls off this many chips already, you are not going to push the fish off his hand. and he calls with 8/6 off. live and learn, what you need to see here is these players are going to call you down when you have nothing, and when you have the nuts, so wait till you have a good made hand. low limit is very easy, push your equity when you have it, dont when you dont! dont bluff off your entire stack to a donk that wont fold. cheers. ryan.

rwood has some good advice here - I like his style. I'd listen. Control of a hand, especially when you have position, is vital. You either fold this flop, and save the chips for another, or raise and find out where you stand. Your call did nothing but commit you further to an ace high hand.When he bets the flop, and calls a good sized bet on the turn, you aren't pushing anyone out of the pot. with your all in on the river.Lets look at it quickly from your opponents point of view:His preflop call was bad, but hey, we like bad opponents.Now that he is in the hand, what does he think you have? Two overcards, pocket pair.When he hits a part of the flop, his first thought should be to bet, and fold to a raise, since he only has second pair. Your call screamed weakness, and his read immediately should change to either trips being slowplayed (unlikely from an UTG raise), or two unmatched overcards. When the King comes, thats a definite scare card, as its one of the overcards you definitely could hold. But remember, he has already sensed weakness from you before, so the K could have missed your hand. He checks to you, you bet about three-quarters pot, and he calls. Yes, this is a loose call on his part, but he's still not conviced you have anything.River is a blank - he didn't improve, but neither did you, from his point of view. So, he's still wavering on his pair being best, and he's not convinced of any strength from you. You go all in, which in my mind is an extreme sign of weakness or extreme strength (the good ol' way ahead/way behind scenario). He makes a crying call and is paid off.Did he play this well? Hell, no, but you gave him a number of opportunities to stay in the pot.Here is how I play this hand:4xBB raise PF is a little small to me - get all those drawing hands out. I almost always raise 5xBB, plus one for each player in the pot (since you are UTG, only the BB is in the pot), so a 6xBB raise. Don't give the SB a chance to enter the pot relatively cheaply.Flop comes, he bets, I raise to define my hand. No min-raising either - represent aces or kings here. If he calls, fire away on a blank turn too. If he calls, well you made your two attempts, and he definitely has something, so give him credit and check the blank river.You need to play much more agressively. Yes, that can be scary, but the 4 pots you win on the flop or turn (and believe me, this is where you make alot of your money) more than makes up for the one pot that gets called down.Dev

[Devilkin]

macphec said:

Playing $1 $2 NL on Party a lot lately and the play is terrible.min raising, people with VPIP > %95. All in w a flush draw etc.I'm rich Beotch

All in with flush draw made me think of Daniel's blog today:"I had K-9 of spades, Sammy Farha had 5-7 of diamonds. The flop comes 10d-Jd-Qs giving me a straight and a back door flush draw. We get it all in on the flop for a quarter million dollar pot, and the diamond hits."So it ain't just the 1/2 tables that do this. :)Dev