a hard stud/8 hand (for me anyway)

[spacemonkey 0]

I've finally tackled the one form of poker that has mystified me so far, Stud/8. It wasn't easy but after a month of Ray Zee's Hi/Lo for advanced players and SSII's Stud/8 section sitting on the back of my toilet I think I finally got a reasonable understanding of the game. Today was my first extensive playing time and this is the one hand that I think I misplayed badly.Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1, $0.10 ante, $0.15 bring-in.(converter doesn't work for FTP so I hope my formatting works for you guys.)*** 3RD STREET *** (1SB)(xx xx) [6:club:] bring-in, fold(xx xx) [K:spade:] fold(xx xx) [J:club:] foldhero (3:club: Q:spade:) [Q:heart:] complete, call(xx xx) [A:diamond:] raiseMy raise could be seen as a steal and he unless he has aces I'm in decent shape. Plus 4.3-1 odds so I call.*** 4TH STREET *** (5.3SB)(xx xx) [A:diamond:] [8:spade:] bet(3:club: Q:spade: [Q:heart:] [6:heart:] callNot sure where I'm at so I call.*** 5TH STREET *** (3.65BB)(xx xx) [A:diamond: 8:spade:] [5:club:] bet(3:club: Q:spade:) [Q:heart: 6:heart:] [A:heart:] check, callI pick up an ace so my high hand looks alright but if he doesn't have aces he's probably got a low.*** 6TH STREET *** (5.4BB)(xx xx) [A:diamond: 8:spade: 5:club:] [Q:club:] bet(3:club: Q:spade:) [Q:heart: 6:heart: A:heart:] [7:spade:] callI pick up a 7-low draw and it seems worth a call @ 6.4 to 1.*** 7TH STREET *** (7.4BB)(xx xx) [A:diamond: 8:spade: 5:club: Q:club:] (xx) bet(3:club: Q:spade:) [Q:heart: 6:heart: A:heart: 7:spade:] (9:heart:) callI hate my hand but the odds are big. Mostly I just want to see what kind of a mess I got myself into. I consider this call a learning expense.*** SHOW DOWN ***rayme shows [A:spade: A:club: A:diamond: 8:spade: 5:club: Q:club: 2:club:] (three of a kind, Aces)hero mucksrayme wins the pot ($9.40) with three of a kind, AcesSo he either started with rolled-up aces or split aces and a deuce (FTP scrambles the downcards). Yikes. Still I'm not sure where I should have gotten away from the hand. I was getting excellent odds the whole way through. Maybe if I'd put in another raise on 3rd or 4th street to see where I'm at? But that seems to make the pot big enough to stick around with Queens vs. Aces. I probably put too much emphasis on catching that ace on 5th street and should have dropped when he bet into my showing 3-flush.Running a little simulation off of twodimes.net, if I was up against split aces my EV was .27-.30 the whole way through so I guess my calls weren't too horrible although I had to buy cards one at a time. Against rolled up aces it was just a nightmare but I couldn't realistically have expected that.

[dingas 0]

I'd fold on 3rd after the raise, or on 4th unimproved. If this guy is a maniac who would push hard with something like A 9 10 wait till you have a good hand to punish him. If he's a solid player, though, there's just no way for you to be in good shape here -- if he has 3 to a low with the ace, he's a favourite over your hand when he catches the 8, and if he has a pair of aces you're pretty screwed. Calling someone down with pair of queens is not a good strategy in this game.

[Rocketwadster 0]

As you indicated, your raise COULD have been seen as a steal, but with an ace behind you that is not the time to be trying to win the antees with a pair of queens. Don't play those hands in those positions very often (unless you know your opponents will fold with ANY ace (at most of the sites I have played on, and ace with ONE low card they continue).As Todd indicated in SS2, don't be throwing good money after bad (ie. don't continue to chase most likely half the pot with your fairly mediocre hand). 8)

[nosoul 0]

You seem to have forgotten the basic rule of this game: only play hands that have scoop potential. The raise on 3rd street is ok if you thought you could run over the table. Getting raised is bad, so either fold to the raise on 3rd street or check/fold on 4th. You have a vulnerable, one-way hand. It's not worth staying in with.

[spacemonkey 0]

Seems like 4th street is the logical place to dump the hand. If he was going low he caught good and I'm a small dog. If he has aces I'd be way behind and should foldNew question, is this a good play if it had unfolded slightly differently.*** 4TH STREET *** (5.3SB)(xx xx) [A:diamond:] [9:spade:] bet, re-raise(3:club: Q:spade:) [Q:heart:] [6:heart:] raise, callwith the intention of folding on 5th street unless I improve. This would be an information raise to determine is he really has the aces before the betting size doubles.I'm still trying to figure out the play of big pairs in Stud/8. I've played a lot of Stud Hi and probably am overplaying them in Stud/8.

[Rocketwadster 0]

I'm still trying to figure out the play of big pairs in Stud/8. I've played a lot of Stud Hi and probably am overplaying them in Stud/8.

Many people overplay a pair of aces, let alone the lowly queens here. Stick to hand with scooping potential, or monster one-way hands (ie. rolled-up queens). 8)

[KowboyKoop 0]

one of the toughest parts of Stud/8 is learning to fold big pairs on 3rd St. However, it is a must.

[dms26 3]

Fold on 5th to the big bet if you didn't fold on 4th, it's not holdem, high pairs don't play very well. I love playing against players that can't fold one high pair, don't be one of those guys.

[AlanBostick 0]

I think the best opportunity you had to get away from this hand was on third street. You had a brick pair with a brick kicker, and a player yet to act had an ace for an upcard. That's an easy laydown.Some people advise that you should simply never play brick pairs (i.e. 99 through KK) in stud/8. I disagree. However, especially if you're a new player, you aren't giving up much EV if you decide not to play them.If you do decide to play brick pairs, make sure that (1) your pair is higher than every other upcard still in the hand, and (2) both your pair and your kicker are completely live. Brick pairs play better head-up than multiway. They do have scoop potential; it lies in either your opponents giving up when their low draws brick off or in your opponents missing their low draws on the river.

[Davin 0]

i'd raise 4th street#1 it's a cheap street, better to get info while it's cheap#2 if he does just call, he's probably got a great low draw, if he raises, you're most likely facing a hand that has great scoop potential (for him that is), so you can probably fold there.

[AlanBostick 0]

i'd raise 4th street You've got queens and y0u're head-up against an ace that caught good. Even if your opponent doesn't have an ace in the hole to go with it, but just a draw to a smooth 8, your equity in the pot here and now is only 50%. If your opponent is drawing to an 87 your equity is only 51% Throw in the possibility that your opponent has split aces, and, summed over all the likelihoods, you're a dog in this spot.Raising here is a money-losing proposition. Calling here is a money-losing proposition. Throw the hand away. Better still, throw it away on third street.