2 replies to this topic

[sherric]

Amatuer Poker League Regional tournament...350 players to start. Playing to go to nationals next month...Down to about 100, I came across this handDealt myself A/4 diamondsBlinds 500/10008 person table, six callers pre-flop. No one raises (nor did I)Flop comes A-clubs, 10-clubs, 5heartsFirst position bets out 1000, two callers behind him, then I call.Turn brings a 4-heartschecks around to me, I bet 2000two callersRiver brings 2-diamondsno flush, straight is possibleCheck, All-in to me (this would put me all-in)What to do. Two pair A-4I folded after five minutes of thought and trying to read all-in.One caller, Pair of A wins, King high! Caller also had A-pair w/Q high.I would have made it to final table with the chip lead this would have given me. No guts-No glory,they say...Any thoughts?

[JimmyWellington]

sherric said:

Amatuer Poker League Regional tournament...350 players to start. Playing to go to nationals next month...Down to about 100, I came across this handDealt myself A/4 diamondsBlinds 500/10008 person table, six callers pre-flop. No one raises (nor did I)Flop comes A-clubs, 10-clubs, 5heartsFirst position bets out 1000, two callers behind him, then I call.Turn brings a 4-heartschecks around to me, I bet 2000two callersRiver brings 2-diamondsno flush, straight is possibleCheck, All-in to me (this would put me all-in)What to do. Two pair A-4I folded after five minutes of thought and trying to read all-in.One caller, Pair of A wins, King high! Caller also had A-pair w/Q high.I would have made it to final table with the chip lead this would have given me. No guts-No glory,they say...Any thoughts?

what were the chip stacks, what was your position (I'm assuming you're on the button with the "dealt myself" part), there's a bunch of unsaid information needed to be able to help you here. A4 suited, I can see the limp preflop, it's multiway, and you have flush and straight possibilities with an ace as well. So you're looking for either a straight or a flush. With 6 people in the pot, do you really think that you're the only one with the ace? And odds are, they outkick your 4. So you're looking to hit your flop or fold. Once again, stack sizes come into play big time here.Here comes the flop. Bad for you. No flush possibility, backdoor straight is your only chance. First position bets 1000 into a 6000 pot. That's a weak bet. Then you have two callers. So now it's 1000 to you into a 9000 pot. You're not getting nearly enough to call this bet with your backdoor straight draw. If you had a higher kicker, then I you'd have a much better play with your ace. Also, without knowing anything about the players, that weak bet by first position usually means that he wants to be called. I would read him for at least AJ-AK. Maybe he's a really passive player and he'll usually bet 1/6th the pot, I don't know.So here on the flop you have two choices, fold or raise. Without knowing any more about the situation, this is an easy fold for me. However, a raise could be right, based on the weak bet (and what you think it means) You have two callers, but they only called a weak bet. If the bet was half the pot to the full pot, and two callers, a fold here is obvious. If you know more information, and you think that they are weak (and more importantly, you know what their "call/fold cutoff is" - the amount that they go from calling with a decent/prospective hand to folding with that hand), then blast them with a raise. Of course this again depends on chip stacks. If you're planning on playing this hand you HAVE to raise. If you call, you have almost no information on your opponent's hand. If you raise it up to, say 4- to 5000, the if they reraise you're done, if they call, then they almost definitely have a hand.Now onto the turn. In my opinion, you should be a spectator at this point, but you're still in the hand. There's 10,000 in the pot. You hit what for you is a miracle card. But what do you really know about the other people's hands? Not much. You just called a weak bet. So now you have two pair, but one of the other people could be slowplaying a set. They could also have an Ace with a high kicker. Or they could have a lower 2 pair, or aces and tens, or aces and fives. You don't know enough to narrow down their holdings. The first position opener could also have nothing and have made the world's cheapest stab at the pot.If you're going to bet, 2000 is way too low. You have to bet at least 5000 here, if you're going to bet. Based on the information you have posted. I'd just check here. If I had good reads on the players and knew that I could take the pot down, I'd bet whatever it took to make them fold. Your weak bet accomplishes nothing, if they call, you STILL don't have much information about their hands. They both call.The river is a 2, which DOES put a 4 straight on the board, I don't know why you are saying no flush or straight is possible. Mabye you typed the wrong card. Check, then an all in to you. How much was the all in? What were the stack sizes, this is important. There was a guy in a sng with me last night that would go all in with a good hand, way overbetting the pot. Usually an over the top all in would indicate that they don't want a call. If I had applied that normal rule to the guy last night, he would have taken all my chips. However, he turned what would be a tough decision into an easy fold. What do you know about the guy? You have to know something, unless he just got to your table. Based on my hand, if a guy goes over the top all in on that river card, I'm calling. If he doesn't want a call, he most likely has A high kicker. For this decision, you have to know the person. And remember that there's another person behind you you have to worry about.

[Snydz9]

while the last post is very accurate to my views, I think depending on your stack size calling with the ace on the flop is an ok play, but after you hit the four you really need to test out the water, like about 1/3-2/5 of your stack. Then if someone is calling that, then they probably also hit two pair that will beat out yours, or they have Ace -2. Depending on the read, it was quite a bad play, if you are in it that far with the best hand you could make, then you gotta call it in my opinion, at this point you need chips, not to worry about money and or placing.