14 replies to this topic

[CobaltBlue]

Bodog .50/1 NL (6-handed)Cobalt ($100)Button ($71)CO ($251)Cobalt is SB w/ A 6 . CO is fairly donkish and mostly a giant calling station, but he has been known to raise. No read on button.Pre-flop:1 fold, MP calls, BB checksFlop ($5): 9 3 Q (5 players)Cobalt bets $3Turn ($14): 4 (3 players)Cobalt bets $6River ($32): J (3 players)Cobalt bets $30Final Pot: $119Anyone varying this betting? At the end of the hand, I was somewhat confused, and I didn't know if I could've done anything differently. Bet the turn smaller/bigger? Try to check-raise the turn?

[Abbaddabba]

Not much you can do there except what you did, besides maybe betting a bit more on the turn.If the guys are calling stations, you can probably get away with betting more on either the turn or river (or both). If they have a baby flush, you're just missing out on huge value - because they likely intend to call off whatever you're willing to bet.

[Davin]

i dont like the turn bet at all6 into 14 is pretty weak. if you're betting to draw cheaply, then that's fine, you'll probably have to lay it down if you didnt hit the river. a $6 turn bet is terribly weak, you're most likely not gonna be able to take it on the river bc good opponents will call you down on 5th street if the river isn't scary.if you were to bet (which i think you should), i'd suggest a range of $10-$14, because that bet is a lot stronger. it allows you to take the pot if you make a nice sized bet on the river if you miss. let's think about the info your opponents are getting on you on each street$6 turn bet sceneriopf: you dont have a monster since you didnt raiseflop ($3): you most likey hit the flop, but it could range anywhere from a draw to a monster (set)turn ($6): you definately dont have a strong hand, as your bet isn't going to drive out many draws. you're clearly not worried about protecting your hand against 2 opponents. better hands will most likely callriver bet w/ safe card: you'll get called down w/ top pair or even mid pair most of the time since you were weak on the turn$14 turn bet sceneriopf and flop: see aboveturn ($14): you're still making pot sized bets into two opponents oop. you may be on a draw, but signs point to 2 pair or better. draws or better hands may fold (both of which is a good thing)river bet w/ safe card: if you're bet is again near pot sized, you may get any remaining villains to fold tp since you've shown no weakness on any streets yet

[CobaltBlue]

Davin, I hit the nuts on the turn. I'm not really drawing (aside from not wanting the board to pair).My weakish $6 lead on the turn is to say, "I have a queen. Please raise me with the flush."

[Davin]

whoopshaha... i should really read posts 2x before i reply.my bad, then yeah, you're play was fine

[Actuary]

my ? is on flop..why bet the nut draw OOP?In Limit, we'd want to c/r this right?...If a bet came from Early-ish..and flat call if from Late-ish, no?In NL.. it seems even more important to not get preiced out of this super draw...and to keep, many interested parties.Am I wrong?or..are you trying to "control the size" of the betting against passive oppponents.

[Davin]

Actuary said:

my ? is on flop..why bet the nut draw OOP?In Limit, we'd want to c/r this right?...If a bet came from Early-ish..and flat call if from Late-ish, no?In NL.. it seems even more important to not get preiced out of this super draw...and to keep, many interested parties.Am I wrong?or..are you trying to "control the size" of the betting against passive oppponents.

i actually like the bet, since it does control the size of the bet. it's a small enough bet that it'll induce players to call w/ mid, low pair, a bad flush draw, straight draw, and top pair weak kicker. leading the flop also allows you to semibluff on the turn if you miss, possibly driving out weak hand. this is a type of hand that i'd like to build the pot w/ (even oop), and i think the $3 does a good job of this

[CobaltBlue]

I don't mind semi-bluffing with strong draws OOP in NL. Occasionally, I'll take the pot down right there with my bet. Otherwise, I'll pick up callers while having equity. And, a lot of times, people will just call. If they do raise, it's often an inadequate amount (like a min-raise). Additionally, by betting here, we somewhat disguise our draw. If we pull check/call, it's usually pretty obvious that we're drawing.

[Actuary]

CobaltBlue said:

I don't mind semi-bluffing with strong draws OOP in NL. Occasionally, I'll take the pot down right there with my bet. Otherwise, I'll pick up callers while having equity. And, a lot of times, people will just call. If they do raise, it's often an inadequate amount (like a min-raise). Additionally, by betting here, we somewhat disguise our draw. If we pull check/call, it's usually pretty obvious that we're drawing.

Good.Just confirming what I do, too.I feel good about it now.Did a similar thing once, then bet 3/4 pot when it hit on turn and all 4 villans folded. One BigStack said "It was obvious from your betting your were drawing and hit the flush" hmm, really?

[CobaltBlue]

I think one issue with my game is the relative non-existence of slowplaying. Say I raise AA and flop top set on a harmless board. 90% of the time, I'm following a pre-flop raise with a flop bet. The problem is that when I'm holding most of the good cards, it's hard for my opponent to bet. But if I slowplay, it looks super-suspicious because I almost always make a continuation bet. It makes me wonder whether I should scale back on my continuation bets...so that slowplaying a monster doesn't look as suspicious. I guess maybe it's not a super necessary tool at low limits with unobservant opponents.

[Captain_Walt]

Hand looks good to me. With two callers it is fair to assume 1 is on a lower flush draw. Looks like he hit it though and wanted to "slowplay" it. What did the two callers have at showdown by the way?On another note I have the issue with my game often. The only time I slowplay really is when I hit a set with a low-mid pocket pair. The trouble I find is because I make continuation bets 9/10 the flop is often checked to me so if I don't bet when I have a monster the pot has the tendency to stay small.anyway nh

[TJ_Eckleburg]

I liked betting the turn harder before I read replies.But... now I feel like betting the turn so weakly was what got you paid on the river.Did you plan to just call if somone raised behind you on the turn? I think if I'm getting raised on the turn, I'm pushing them in now if I think they have a flush, and calling and check/pushing the river if I put them on anything else.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

CobaltBlue said:

I think one issue with my game is the relative non-existence of slowplaying. Say I raise AA and flop top set on a harmless board. 90% of the time, I'm following a pre-flop raise with a flop bet. The problem is that when I'm holding most of the good cards, it's hard for my opponent to bet. But if I slowplay, it looks super-suspicious because I almost always make a continuation bet. It makes me wonder whether I should scale back on my continuation bets...so that slowplaying a monster doesn't look as suspicious. I guess maybe it's not a super necessary tool at low limits with unobservant opponents.

Bingo.

[CobaltBlue]

TJ_Eckleburg said:

Did you plan to just call if somone raised behind you on the turn?  I think if I'm getting raised on the turn, I'm pushing them in now if I think they have a flush, and calling and check/pushing the river if I put them on anything else.

Yeah. Definitely pushing if I'm re-raised.The hand history astounded me.CO had Td 7d for the flush.Button had Kd Jd for the second nut flush.How one of them didn't raise...it's bizarre.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

CobaltBlue said:

TJ_Eckleburg said:

Did you plan to just call if somone raised behind you on the turn?  I think if I'm getting raised on the turn, I'm pushing them in now if I think they have a flush, and calling and check/pushing the river if I put them on anything else.

Yeah. Definitely pushing if I'm re-raised.The hand history astounded me.CO had Td 7d for the flush.Button had Kd Jd for the second nut flush.How one of them didn't raise...it's bizarre.

That, my friend, is poker.Taking money from bad players by exploiting their bad play.